Broken Bull Unit

[15444]

cowman

I remember Titan 7777. I saw pictures of him and remembered all the good things I had heard about him. Never heard of Perfection. I raise both horned and polled, so I should a least know of him. That Titan bull had really strong milking daughters but a had a fellow breeder try him and the poor heifer never could get bred because she wouldn't quit growing! Couldn't develop reproductivly until she developed physically. I think that's probably the only problem with that Titan bull.

[TJM]

If you are a Hereford breeder 15444, you damn well are a poor promoter. Get out and look at todays Hereford cow. Udders with milk are the norm and those that don't, they have a special place in the fast food chain. There are two things that are bad for a breed. Popularity and greedy breeders. The first because breeders find that they can sell animals that are not superior and have genetic flaws; the later because everyone of us looks at the $ at the end of the day and if you can sell something for twice its value when compared to the stock yard, there are few who would do different.

The Hereford breed went through this for most of the last century. Then we tried to "rediscover" our selves and chase something that was not catchable. We are a maternal breed and must never loose sight of that. Our female is our strength. She can be crossed with any other breed in the world and produce a highly marketable calf. We made errors in the past and no doubt will again as a breed and as individual breeders. It just ticks me off when people remember the flaws of yesterday and breeders that make their living from selling this breed cut them down as well. You either need a larger gate on the culling pen or a larger trailer to haul all those 'breed downers' to town. Getting out and looking at some good Hereford herds wouldn't hurt either. I can show you many, both purebred and cross bred with out the flaws with which you refer to. This is a GREAT breed. Credit needs to be given, lord knows we have sure put up with the criticism. It was rightful at one time but lets all think positive.

[flatbroke]

I don't want to get embroiled in a breed debate, but I've used PB angus bulls for 15 years with no problems "down there". I did once, however, have a maine bull with broken equipment - he was a rather agressive breeder. To exaserbate the problem, he jumped a fence while chasing him home and ripped it up good! OUCH!!! Upon consultation with my vet, and some old timers, I treated him as follows... Lots of pennicillin, wash thoroughly 2 - 3 times a day, then coat with violet oil after each cleaning. Watch for any dead flesh and trim it away as much as possible. I have since heard of another case where maggots moved in and as gross as that sounds, they say to leave them there as they will do no harm, and actually prevent gangrene by removing dead tissue. Anyway, I kept this treatment up for about 2 weeks, and it gradually healed and retracted. I didn't intend to use him again, but before I shipped him he got loose and bred 3 cows with no problem! Not a job for a jumpy kicky bull or for those squeamish, but I did have good luck in that case... Hope this helps!

[cowman]

Perfection was a polled bull bred in the States(I think South Carolina). By all accounts he was a good one and won all kinds of shows. His semen was used extensively until the jig was up. He was supposed to be an embryo planted in a red holstein cow, but blood typing showed his mother actually was the red holstein cow! By this time there were hundreds of progeny on the ground! Many lawsuits followed and in the end his progeny had to have an asterisk in the herd books. In defacto that doomed them in the purebred world. I saw some AI calves that a local breeder had and they looked really good. They were way bigger than his other calves. Personally I think they should have let them in.
In regards to the Northern heritage thing...they have sort of a similar thing here in Alberta. You pay less tax if you live far enough north. I guess thats about the only way they can get people to move there. They have to pay a lot more for everything they buy due to freight costs so I guess it is fair.

[squirt]

I will give you a little veterinary advice regarding your bull with the penis problem. With a true broken penis (penile hematoma) there will be a softball size swelling midway between the scrotum and sheath where he has formed a blood clot after tearing the penis. If that is not there what you are describing is more likely a preputial laceration which is a tear in the prepuce from breeding. These become infected and swollen and cause symptoms similar to what you describe. If you want to minimize your cost in treating him you could treat him with antibiotics to help control the infection. Washing the penis and flushing the sheath would also help. Once the infection resolves and the swelling is down the penis should retract into the sheath. There is a risk of an adhesion (scar tissue) which may prevent him from extending his penis in the future but I have seen many of these heal with no problems. That is the simplest treatment based on your description of the problem. For more intensive care and a potentially better result you should contact your local practitioner.

[15444]

TJM

You tell me why I can't get commercial cattlemen in my area to go back to Herefords. They say they won't touch 'em after the breeders screwed them up! How do you ignore comments like that? I have been a slow steady process for the past four years to try and get my herd back to at least a 70's , if not 60's polled Hereford. We have to admit our mistakes because if we don't then someone down the line like your kids will forget about what happened and screw the breed up even more! What bulls do you know of in the Hereford breed that can produce daughters with milk and have about two inches of fat covering their entire body. I can't think of even one! The Felton's herd give the breed milk, but the animals are as skinny as a Holstien. I don't know of any herd in Canada with an exceptionally thick cowherd. Except maybe john vancise down in Southern Ontario. He was the only frigin farm that didn't jump on the bandwagon back in the 70's and 80's. He still breeds the Spidel and Lamplighter genes. Now those are decent looking cattle. You can also shut your mouth about the damn hereford shows across Canada. I've been to the Royal in toronto, Ag-Ex in Brandon, Agribition, Farmfair. There is one thing I do see at the shows,,,,,,a heifer calf with a five gallon bucket of barley in front of it. Boy! now there's what the judges call natural thickness, bull$#%#!

[TJM]

Maybe part of the reason for the lack of respect from your local customers stems from the fact that you as a breeder have none for the breed. As far as the show ring goes, it is just a promotional tool and any breed or breeder can disguise the true results of an animals performance with a little feed and some masterful hands on. Good for a breed, I don't know. Offer your neighbors the use of a good bull for free. They have that bad taste still left over from a bad experience. It is a sure way of selling more bulls to him and his neighbors. There is an old adage that bad news travels twice as fast as good, so be prepared to sell some good bulls in a few years. Remember that positive thinking produces good results. Good luck with the experiment.

[15444]

Most customers don't care to see a bull with a bucket of feed in his face 24/7. Is that what the hereford breed has been reduced to? A pathetic breed that even other breeders (such as yourself) say can't perform without a 5 gallon pail of feed day and night? I also never bring up the bad points in a hereford when i'm selling, my customers do. What i'm I supposed to do, lie? Are most purebred breeders in this business to bullshit our way through selling and animal and hope we never hear of it again?

[cowman]

I'm not out to rip any breed or the purebred game. Realize though that the purebred business relies on selling the sizzle as much as selling the steak! And quite frankly if you don't push them you will not compete! And if you aren't a good salesman they will not sell. You might have a better mousetrap but if you don't market it, no one will beat a path to your door.
In my area the hereford bull is a rarity! The only place you might see one is in with a bunch of heifers. Why is this? Well one reason could be that they consistently sell below the average at the fall calf sales? Like around 5 cents a pound less! Not too hard to figure out on a 600 lb. calf...$30. Now we're talking a straightbred calf here so maybe that isn't a fair comparison.
Take a good straight bred hereford cow, throw in a char bull and you add about 70 lbs. right away and another 5 cents a pound. Result $100 extra in your pocket. Extra calving trouble? Not if you get the right Charlais bull.
Kind of nice when the buyers all want your calves instead of just the bottom feeders.

[cswilson]

cowman about 7777 he was definately part simmy-i saw belted calves off him in us. i also got rat tails off him and black cows. a real wreck