Machinery

[15444]

Kind of interested on what kind of equipment you producers run out there. I have a 1976 MF 184-4 with loader tractor. A 930 Case tractor. A 1965 Belarus 400 tractor. A 1976 Vermeer 605C Round Baler. A 1975 Hesston PT-10 Haybine. A 273 New Holland Small Square Baler. 1960 MF 2 furrow plow.
The back rims on the MF 184-4 are just about finished. Phoned in for replacement prices on them. $3000.00 for just the outer shell of the rim, not even the inner casing included. How do producers out there afford new machinery? I live off the farm, run 50 commercial Hereford cows. Have never been able to even think about a new tractor. But then I see people out there that run 300 cows, have an off-farm job and are always crying for money from any form of government they can get money from, just because they are in a drought area. Yet I can't get any funding for even small projects like a hayshed without being in a certain tax bracket. What a $$$#@@#@ country!

[leland]

Earlier in your listing "I still don't understand" you were so high on your farm in Ontario yet it seems your spread and Hereford cows can't support your desire for new machinery. Things not as rosy as you claim?

[15444]

So tell me leland, Am I further off to increase my cow herd to say 170 cows and buy a new 100 hp john deere tractor just to go into debt by about 100 grand and then turn around and cry at the government and say that I can't support myself when the price drops back to 80 cents for a good feeder calf? I don't think so. But, then again, I'm a so-called Easterner. I am not supposed to think long term, right? I wrote this piece because I am really wondering how many of you guys are like these people who get on T.V. and bawl their eyes out because they have to sell their cows, but then the picture on the T.V. shows the same guy riding a three year old tractor with a shiny new baler behind it. It makes me sick to think that other farmers out there need to be as big as they are in order to just buy a new piece of equipment every second or third year. Take a good hard look at my shortened list of equipment. The newest piece in that list is the MF tractor. The only way I got that tractor in '78 was by trading in three other tractors and still having to pay 25 grand.

No leland actually I do live a fairly rosy lifestyle for a farmer with that many head of cattle. I've got a great looking house (about 2500 sqft) and new vehicle (leasing of course, farmers only way) and I can afford to get the parts to replace my old equipment. But don't you also think that the majority of farmers give the public the wrong impression when they see a guy sitting on a fairly good piece of equipment and crying that he can't afford the payments because he has to buy hay instead? That's like Chretian driving up to Parliment and crying aloud saying that his new rolls royce is the wrong colour and that he want's to charge the taxpayers to buy him another six so he has one for every day of the week!

[cowman]

Without a doubt machinery is a big problem. I went to a "Pursuing Profits" seminar a couple of years ago and one of the speakers(a banker) stated the biggest problem facing farmers is too much machinery and the desire to own more!
Parts are another problem. You just can't be surprized by the price of parts!
It is very hard to justify owning a new line of haying equipment unless you have at least 500 acres in hay, and maybe not even then! Haybines close to $40,000. Balers over that. Doesn't make sense.
One of the most important things they should be teaching young kids is how to fix things. I believe too much emphasis is put on management and not enough on technical skills. If you are a fairly good mechanic, welder, electrician, plumber, carpenter you can save yourself a pile of money!
I have a fairly decent line of machinery
but none of it was bought new. I have a 1999 Heston baler that I bought for half the price of a new one in 2001. You have to shop around if you want a deal. Whenever possible you should try to buy with your own money but the golden rule should be that the piece of machinery will actually pay for itself. In many cases custom work prices make a lot more
sense. Get out the old pencil and keep it sharp!

[rookie]

This "westerner" is currently greasing up an old 1988 silage harvester which is behind an older tractor. Don't beleive all you see on the t.v. I live in a small house and wonder how competive I will be against those bigger producers in the future with that line of equipment. It is my beleif that for me personally, I can get by without sinking into debt with new " iron " . At least for now. And If there isn't enough feed for the winter, well then thems the brakes for me. Just don't feel your alone with the older equipment, and wonder which way to turn. We all are in the same business but with different circumstances.

[smcgrath76]

Interesting topic. Basically a pretty good discussion regarding return on assets.
Interesting also in that we rationalised our equipment at home some time ago. We operate at 1976 JD4430 a Gehl Baler, and discbine and a mower. We disposed of combines, etc. We have found a local opportunity to put up straw and feed by haying/baling on shares and also do some straight custom work. It has let us expand our landbase without mortgage payments, and given us some added flexibility in our operation.
There are many ways to skin the proverbial cat, and for some who can trade in regularly perhaps the return on assets and cost investment is minimalised with new equipment.
Just a thought, if cows are your only farming income take all your enterprise payments and divide by the number of cows you own. That is a pretty good figure to tell you what you need for the price of your calves.

[cowman]

I have to agree with you guys. Patch her up and make her do! Machinery is a losing proposition.
Another thing to consider is the high cost of living. For a few bucks and some effort you can raise a lot of your own food...butcher that pig/steer that they aren't paying you enough for...and hey pay no tax on it! Buy your meat/vegatables at Safeway and you pay after tax dollars!
Here's a clear example of a saving. I decided I wasn't going to pay a trucker to haul my bales home from two miles down the road. I had an old 3 ton that I use to haul water with. A bale rack was $1200 so I built one out of used oil field tubing. Cost $235 and one days welding and cutting. It's stronger than the store bought and I didn't have to drive 60 miles to pick it up(besides I like building things!). It will probably save me a couple of thousand this year.

[leland]

15444 you sure make a lot of assumptions of the state of those in need. We all make choices on how to conduct our business, but I would not be so bold as to hold another man up for trying. I often think you have to walk a mile in another man's shoes to decide if his concerns are legitimate. Our decisions on iron is to by the equipment new when possible and then mile it out. We get 10000 hours on our tractors and the liquidate them at auctions and then start again. It seems to be the lowest operating cost per hour as we do a lot of servicing and maintenace and with this we achieve these hours with little repairs. I believe many operators never change trans and hydralic oils or rebearing engines at 5000 hrs. I also can't help but wonder, 15444, why you expect someone else to help pay for your hayshed?

[dalek]

Is that funding under the Northern Heritage fund you were looking for to build a hayshed? The one southern Ontario farmers aren't eligible for because the gov't figures northern farmers deserve extra subsidies?

[dalek]

15444 looks as though your pretty down in the farming profession the same as many of us. It has been a very stressful year for many ( and not just in Alberta). The worst we have seen in our career, and it is hard to get refocused, but if your going to survive thats what you have to do.
I'm very disturbed to hear the phrase" cattle are starving to death" If you "love" your cattle so much do what we did and sell them before they starve. We certainly didn't want to sell, but it was the best thing we could do for them, even though they owed us more money than they brought. We have huge land payments, but for a year or so we must find another way to make them, instead of allowing the cattle to drain our pocket book completely.

[dalek]

And yet you say you can't get a grant for a hayshed because you're in the wrong tax bracket. Move south. We don't have grants for haysheds period. Haysheds are a cost of doing business and they pay for themselves pretty quickly. We wouldn't think of trying to get a grant to house cattle, for export or anything else. The fact remains: There IS a special program funnelling money to northern agriculture, and only northern agriculture. There is no such program restricted to southern farmers. If northern Ontario has so many advantages in your mind, why do you need more?

[cowman]

palexand: You've got the right attitude. So many people are living in a dream world in regards to their cattle. Feeding them now with what little hay they have. For what? So they can sell them in a month when reality hits? $200/ton hay just being wasted!
Hard times call for hard decisions. Survival will happen for those who make those hard decisions. The people who dither along will hit the wall sooner or later. Theres more to life than losing money on a bunch of cows!

[rookie]

Personally, any sympathy I had for a northern Ontario Farmer went out the window with phrase " injuns and halfbreeds " The correlation that was trying to be made is apparently true in some 'areas' of agriculture . Now if y'all can't read between those lines...I'm off to build a tailgate for a silage truck. Have a good day.

[leland]

15444 not only do I farm full time with no off farm income I have a full time employee who depends on and appreciates the work and salary provided to him from our operation. I think I understand your predicament quite clearly it seems everyone else including the government is to blame for where you are in your career except the most obvious. Your predicament rests squarely on the shoulders of a self absorbed whiner.

[15444]

Dalek

The Northern Ontario Advantage is that we don't get ourselves into predicaments where we have to get on our knees and beg people to help us. I didn't say that that didn't include a crappy income. Also when I mean wrong tax bracket, I mean it's not high enough. N Heritage expects to see an major increase in profits in the coming years after a grant has been given or the grant becomes a loan with a hefty interest rate! I made 15 grand pure profit last year. (To get N Heritage, they want you making a least 60-70 grand a year. How much did you make? There is no way that any farmer can make over 50 grand a year without having another job, either himself, wife, parents, kid, etc. coming in. Also, you can only have cattle, no grain or other crops!