Good source of forage seed???

[WiltonRanch]

I like the clover in grass blends. Got some grass through Weder and he made me a real mixture that seemed to fill in everywhere. There was alsike, anik alfalfa. tap alfalfa, meadow brome, and then I threw in some sweetclover and spredor 4 alfalfa. I think a dogs breakfast stand will last longer than just a dual or mono crop blend. Think too you should have some fescue and Timothy too.

[freewheat]

Thanks for the info, guys. The land that is getting seeded down, is a small, well sloped field, with no areas where water ever sits, and it has what I call an inverse soil profile. IE the topsoil is heavier than the subsoil, which is quite sandy, so it has good drainage.

Not sure about clovers with sheep, need to look into that more. I assume you are talking red clover?

What about sainfoin, or trefoil? Typically, historically, alfalfa does really well here. In these wet years, I have not been looking too closely at how it has been affected by saturation...

Lots to think on.

Thanks again...

[grassfarmer]

Sheep thrive on clover - its a natural fit for them. I really like the alsike clover if you get enough moisture and not too much heat like our conditions here. Red would tend to get too big and too coarse for sheep unless you had cattle to help keep it down. I don't have a lot of experience of alfalfa but my impression is it takes more management under grazing. Timothy is the one species I would never seed for a grazing situation.

[freewheat]

Wow, I am sorry, I never even stated my intent of use for the forage. It is for hay, not grazing. Does this change all your suggestions, or did you assume it was for hay already?

[grassfarmer]

I was assuming it was for grazing. If you are haying go ahead with your alfalfa but find something other than meadow brome for a grass as it is low growing and not the best for hay. Maybe smooth brome or even that timothy #$%&!

[freewheat]

Thanks grassfarmer!

[Mufferaw]

Timothy or hydrid broke would be good choices. Use a tap and creeping root alfalfa

[blackjack]

So many many variables Freewheat...is the land going to be used in a short rotation or permanent.Do you plan on selling the hay whether alfalfa for dairy or timothy for the horse crowd.Most important would be what legumes or grasses grow on your type of soil and of course your climate.

[littledoggie]

No one has mentioned orchard grass. We use orchard grass (35-40%) in our hay fields along with 60% alfalfa. Alsike clover is here (Peace Country) naturally and just comes up no matter what you do. We sometimes have a little Timothy in our mix. Our soil is grey-wooded. The orchard grass does well in it but in a hot dry year it will go dormant. It likes to be shaded so the mix with alfalfa is good, also if you have a smaller field shaded by trees. The beauty of it is how prolific it is in producing many many leaves and virtually no stock. (unlike Timothy) The cattle really like it - the meadow brome they don't like because it is 'hairy'. The weaned calves do really well on the orchard grass - they really like it.

[WiltonRanch]

You guys aren't fans of meadow brome I see. What is a better alternative for hay on heavy clay? It sure isn't a real producer. I am always afraid of drought and the meadow seems to hold on.

[grassfarmer]

I really like meadow brome but consider a grass to be grazed not hayed. We find it to be very productive. The only time we have palatability issues with it is in banked grass grazed the following spring. It holds its quality and is really popular right into November though under our conditions.
Agreed orchard grass is a useful grass under certain conditions. It is subject to winter kill in areas that don't get enough snow cover. It also regrows so quickly that it is very susceptible to the regrowth getting clipped a second time within about 3 days in a grazing situation.

Don't have any experience of clay soil WiltonRanch so can offer no suggestions.

[smcgrath76]

Meadow brome is fantastic, but not for haying. Leaves are fine and tough to cut, but the tonnage is good. We have not had palatability issues with it, but we use paddocks and move cows so maybe a different system than some others. Smooth or hybrid brome with upright growth is much better for hay. We have had pretty good luck with it on clay soils. We usually seed meadow brome or crested wheat and alfalfa in a pasture mix (depending on the planned season of use). Not a large fan of timothy just due to the nutrient profile and short cutting window before it is basically straw. We have done some experimenting with russian wildrye and are looking at cicer milkvetch and sainfoin for use in some of our grazing plantings. We graze lots of our tame stuff that is 50 to 75% alfalfa with no problems.
A good place to look is the Brett Young site, even if you don't buy the seed from them, they have some pretty good ideas for mixes. Also Northstar seeds has some pretty decent ideas for mixes.