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    #11
    OK, I'll jump in about here. I agree with PER 100%: selling the credits just allowa the emitters to emit, and gives them bragging rights to sway the blind public eye that they really give a $h!t about the environment.

    I agree with you grassfarmer that we are not doing enough as landowners nationally or globally to improve soil health and organic matter content, but I'll give you some food for thought.

    For agrument's sake, let's say for the next 10 years down the road, you're getting $45/acre for carbon credits. It doesn't take much land to amount to a sizeable income from the practice. After even a couple of years of this I can see people becoming dependant on the relationship, and so in theory, you basically train farmers to like the fossil fuel industry.

    If they're paying you thousands/year for your practices, just so the carpet they sweep their mismanagment under turns from black to green, would you really want them to ever clean up their act? Would you want to see green energy sources like turbines promoted in your area? Remember, now that you're a carbon credit junkie, if the oil companies go, so does your credit cheque.

    I know that better soil health is the key to all life on our planet, and we all need to be doing better jobs of improveing ours on our own farms. I believe Holistic Management is the best system for doing so, and from that perspective, I absolutely cannot agree with selling carbon credits. Holistic Management is about addressing the root cause of the problem, not treating the symptoms. And by giving the oil companies a "Get Out Of Jail Free Card", we are treating a symptom. The root cause of the problem is that they are producing dirty energy - period. They know they could be producing green energy by several different means, but they choose not to. Should their way of business be painted in a prettier picture because they can "buy" these credits? I don't think so. Whether they pay us or not, the bottom line is, they are still polluting our environment, and that should stop. That is a truth that I just don't think can be argued.

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      #12
      I certainly don't want to give polluters a get out of jail card but realistically with the scale of industry around the world plus the global population rising the way it is I don't think we can reduce CO2 emissions to a level that will be captureable by our existing soils/ grass etc. Nearly every human activity creates CO2. This is an attempt to rectify the situation by making the offenders at least pay something for their practices which could be directed to landowners who can work to rectify the situation. I agree it isn't a holistic solution by any means.

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        #13
        What about emitions other than the plant food, SO2, particulates, CO etc. Shouln't there be a plan to address real polution?

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          #14
          Yikes. Sure wish I could spell!

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            #15
            Would be nice if we could make the kind of changes needed all at once, but I think the carbon credit idea is one step in a long walk toward recovery.

            I also agree that the idea is not holistic, but we are not going to stop the emitters on our own. We might as well be doing something about it rather than just talk. Incentive is the way for progress, and I saw incentive in the plans set out in Australia. Extra payment for extra carbon sequestration. This would certainly enable more farmers and ranchers willing to join in, and although it may not slow the emitters much, it would at least deal with part of the problem which is not being dealt with now.

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              #16
              Had a discussion about this last night at our family meeting. I still feel like keeping my feet in the mud, and saying that no matter what the offenders have to pay, it doesn't change the fact that they are still polluting.

              I agree with you Randy that it will entice more landowners to manage land properly, but define proper management. From what I've read, there are no payment plans yet for grasslands here in Canada, which is absolutely ridiculous. Grasslands will sequester far more carbon than no-tilled farmland. A friend of mine spoke with a credit broker earlier in the fall, and it looked like he'd be eligible until he mentioned that he uses sweeps on his cultivator to control weeds, instead of spraying more chemical. They told him that makes him ineligible. So he's doing good on one hand by using less chemical, but he's ruining his chances of getting paid for his carbon credits. I'm not an expert on sequesteration enough to know if the one pass he does actually releases what carbon his soils have sequestered, so I won't dispute that. The whole system seems to have a lot of holes in it is all.

              My Dad made a good point last night I must admit. He said, "If they pay $45/acre, I'd take the money for 4-5 years until the land is paid for. Then scrap it. They can buy them from someone else."

              Basically he's saying use it, but use it wisely. Don't become dependant on it. As I said, he's got a point.

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                #17
                Forgot to ask - if Encana or Anadarko or CNRL or whomever buys carbon credits from John Q. Landowner, what is the benefit for them? Do they get tax breaks from the government? I've heard rumors but never anything concrete.

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                  #18
                  Forgot to mention in my last post. Bet the administrators are just rubbing their hands together on this. It's better than CAIS or Crop Insurance, or whatever new plan comes out. This can be administered/audited/checked/rechecked/
                  double checked, triple checked forever. This is a make work, fake work project where tired/fired/retired framers can work forever, not to mention burnt out politicos, that will jump on boards to fix policy and consult with leading framers in the field. This is a stupid, stupid, stupid concept!

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                    #19
                    Please name us one thing in this whole wide world that you do like Burbert.

                    As far as I can tell there is only one thing and that is the Canadian Wheat Board.

                    You curse at everything else.

                    What would it be?

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                      #20
                      Silverback: I agree with Burbert. It is undoubtedly a stupid, stupid scheme and I have said so from day one. This whole carbon cycle thingy where one exploits another to obtain a so-called benefit is total BULL.

                      My gawd, we studied the carbon cycle in high school and college where it was just that...a process...not some evil thing which mankind had to manage to save the planet.

                      Politicians should stick to what they know best (which probably isn't much), and leave science to someone who has at least studied it.

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