Live Animal Test

[bsetester]

Contrary to popular belief, the "Live Animal Urine Test" is going to become a reality. The Validation process will soon be underway and once completed in approximately 24 - 36 months, the test will hopefully become the Gold Standard. THe OIE in Paris is already aware of it and waiting for the validation data to arrive. The United States National Prion Surveillance Laboratory in Cleveland Ohio has agreed to conduct all of the validations and DEFRA, the European Commission for Food safety is not only aware of it also but has provided us the "Testing Guidlines" by which they themselves validate BSE protocols.

The opportunity for each producer to finally be sure that his product not only passes through all regulatory controls regarding BSE surveillance but also into a welcome market place either domestically or internationally will become a reality also. It is my hope to be able to bring this about for all producers not only in Canada and the United States, but around the world. Also, I do wish to state clearly that this program we are embarking on is not about profiteering on the backs of the producers but it is about making damn sure that the product is safe and that the producers can put the issue of BSE behind them. All profits derived from our "low-cost" BSE test will go into further Prion Research. For far too long now, BSE has been a constant plague that has not only devastated the industry but has caused wide-spread hostility and market closures world-wide. There will soon be an opportunity to provide proven product to the world that is not only known to be free of BSE but has been tested thoroughly so that the markets can be sure of what they are getting. Patience and a little more time is all that is needed. Again, a live animal test is coming and will change your world for the better - of that I am sure.

Ron.

[jensend]

i hope your political influence is as great as your technology because you might have god in a box but if regulators don't allow it's use it won't matter.

[grassfarmer]

I hope you are talking to the right people bsetester - "...and DEFRA, the European Commission for Food safety..."
I take it this should be "EFSA" the European Food Safety Authority??
"DEFRA" is the UK's Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs which was formally the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food before that title became politically incorrect in Westminster because it contained the word "agriculture".

Anyway good luck with a live test, it's long been talked about and I'll believe it when I see it. Even if it is tested, approved and patented can we be sure Cargill or Tyson won't buy up the patent and lock it in their company vault as happens in the automobile industry?

[rkaiser]

A word about the regulators. Up until now - we have been putting the regulatory blame on CFIA and believe me they need to be reigned in and put back into the postion of food safety and not involving themselves with trade. However - the word you will get from CFIA is that they have not been asked. Asked by whom I say. I think that the problem lies with the group that says that they are the voice of the industry and CFIA is waiting for them to ask.....

APB/CCA proved once again this fall that they still want to regulate BSE testing. They have not only not asked the CFIA to take a look at the testing option, but have down right told them they do not support it.

We are being screwed by those who say they lead our industry and up until the current Minister of Agriculture in Alberta saw through this BS, the government, and I will say CFIA was listening to ABP/CCA and only ABP/CCA.

Had ABP/CCA taken the testing issue to the producers in the form of a plebicite when BIG C first asked for it 4 years ago - things would definately be different. ABP/CCA took the arrogant route and said that they knew more than the producers and knew that testing was not right. In fact farmers_son and many more will still say this. An undemocratic dictatorial process spewing arrogance.

Just like farmers_son's little joke about old Kaiser running around with a bucket collecting piss. Do you actually hope that a test is never validated just so YOU and the ABP/CCA GANG don't have to deal with it farmer_son?

The best way for this test or any test to be kept from the vaults of Cargill and Tyson grassfarmer, is to make it as public as we possibly can. Tell the world the truth about our arrogant leadership and their willingness to allow producers to fail just to save their own faces. Tell the world that we can and will test our product if they want it that way. Tell the world that we are not afraid of the circumstances and in fact see the positive circumstances of offering a tested product.

There is so much morality in testing than not that it is hard to see how anyone can deny or resist it. Hiding behind the issue for predicted monetary purposes, which is also very debatable, is dispicable and it is time for that behaviour to stop.

[bsetester]

Thanks for the note regarding DEFRA & EFSA and my subtle mistake. I have been writing for hours and I am not prone to perfection sometimes. Thanks.

As for Tyson and Cargill buying our already "World-Wide" patented protocol - no chance of that happening.

Ron.

[farmers_son]

I am inclined to go with Grassfarmer when he says he will believe a live test exists when he sees it. I have spoken with my veterinarian about live tests and he says it will never happen, but hey... what does he know?

For the OIE position see:

http://www.oie.int/eng/normes/mmanual/Revised%20chapters/Manual_2%2003%2013_BSE%20-%20Revised%20Chapter.pdf

[rkaiser]

The question farmers_son is --- When the test is validated, will you and the ABP/CCA cronies still deny it's use by the private sector with your self proclaimed authority, like you have with the current post mortem test?

[farmers_son]

Actually the question is whether or not a live test will ever be found. My gut feel is that such a test will never be found but in any event in 2 or 3 years, when such a test might be proven effective, BSE will be a non issue when it comes to trade so it will not matter. Really when you realize that we are exporting cows and cow beef right now to the U.S. and young beef to Japan and elsewhere I would say that BSE is pretty much a non issue right now today.

As it stands right now Canada and the United States both are considered to have an equal BSE status which is "Controlled Risk". Testing is done for surveillance purposes while food safety is provided by removal of SRMs.

[rkaiser]

What do you think the "rules" are for farmers_son? Going to the bathroom out of turn?

Surveillance LOL - don't you mean deception to keep the Media happy. At least Canada admits to finding a few with their minimal testing numbers - but if you call the American system surveillance you are truly lost in wonderland.

BSE is an issue bud, and will be used for economic gain for a long long time to come. And you and your ABP/CCA cronies can deny that fact until the cows come home - or all leave.......

You have not answered my question yet batman - are you and the ABP/CCA self appointed regulators going to stop private industry from testing even when the live test is validated?

[farmers_son]

I know you think BSE is the issue. Since May 2003 our dollar has gone from 65 cents to $1.02, oil is $98 a barrel when it was $20 a barrel in 2002, land prices have doubled in the last 10 years or less. What caused the last disruption at the U.S. border was E.Coli not BSE. COOL will come into effect in September 2008. I think Foot and Mouth is our next disaster waiting to happen, not BSE. These are all issues today that really were not issues when BSE struck and we thought that was the worst it could get. It has been over 4 years, BSE may be an issue but it is not the only issue today and I do not think it is the most important issue in 2008. Some focus needs to shift from BSE to our other pressing challenges.

We found another BSE cow again in December. If we keep on finding those BSE positives we will have to do more testing whether we want to or not. I for one hope it never gets to that point.

[rkaiser]

Of course there are other challenges farmers_son. But listen to your own words. You have become the epitome of deception when it comes to BSE, just like the USDA, NCBA, ABP/CCA, etc etc. You hope it goes away and you continue to deny the only true way out.

BSE is not going away farmers_son. No matter how many times you ask Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. All of the other problems that you mention are connected. Connected because we do not have the right to expand our market due to the above mentioned organisations holding us back. Product demand would correct parts of all of the issues you mention.

[Willowcreek]

I think a live test would be very beneficial to both countries...I know it would be to me- and my decision to ever buy Canadian cattle..

Because of my belief that Canada has a higher rate of BSE than the US- I will not/would not buy any seedstock or cattle period from Canada- until Canada can prove that the disease has been eradicated/or until a test is developed which gives assurances the live animals are not manifesting the disease...

I would not want to take the chance of being the one that imports a Canadian animal that is later found positive for the disease while in the US- and again negatively impacts by Billions of dollars the US cattle/beef industry, like the Washington cow did....

And I know many folks that feel the same way...

[jensend]

i believe scientists in israel developed a urine test for prion proteins. whatever came of that? did it go to testing and if so did it prove to be reliable?

[bsetester]

In answer to jensend,

Ruth Gabizon at Haddassah University in Israel was provided an opportunity some years ago to work with "Out Test Protocol" and she thought she had finally made it work. She attempted to perfect it at a time when it was still being developed and although the test was still in its early develpment stage it was still showing extreme potential as the "Live Animal Test" that all had been searching for.

However, she did not have the necessary antibody which is key to the entire protocol which binds to PrPsc and provides the definitive marker for TSE's. She was able to identify PrPc - the precurser identifier but was unable to repeat the test. In order to claim success, it is required that the initial protocol is able to be repeated not only by the lab that does the initial test, but any other lab which is given the data must also be able to complete the protocol. Since that day, she and her lab has never been able to replicate the test. The only lab that has been able to consistently do it is the United States National Prion Surveillance Laboratory in Cleveland, Ohio. After a further initial validation of two years of our test protocol, Cleveland has come to us and stated catagorically that they want to validate it for identifing PrPsc in the urine of not only cattle, but all potential TSE hosts including humans. It is this same world-class and leading prion research facility that has agreed to validate our test for all known TSE's. THe OIE in Paris has agreed to review all ongoing data-streams from Cleveland pursuent to validating the test. They were especially intrigued to know that our test can identify the presence of PrPsc in as little as one (1) ml of urine.

Contray to "farmers_son" a "Live Test" has indeed been found and yes, it does work and it is now proceeding toward validation and then to the OIE for final evaluation of all collected data from Cleveland. So you can see that the feeling in your gut may well be something else entirely. Perhaps those Christmas candies were a little off.

[Bez]

I am not a scientist. But I can honestly state I am hopeful this comes to pass. Time alone will tell.

It is an issue - despite those in most cattle orgs denying it.

But then again I am well known as a person who believes those cattle orgs at present are a waste of time, effort, money and often the very skin of the people running them.

High dollars do indeed affect us but the fact remains the U.S. sold a pile of beef to the world when their dollar was well up there.

Be that as it may, markets will open if the test comes to fruition.

Anyone thinking otherwise is smoking dope.

Deflect, divert and ignore -the usual cattle org way.

Bez