T.B Zone Area

[Dniak]

I would like to take this opputunity to get any feedback on the proposed CFIA TB zone around RMNP. As a producer in this area I think this zone is a sham based on no scietific basis.

[jmillang]

I have an idea about what you are referring to but can you provide some more details so we can have a good discussion with some more information and facts?

I think you are referring to the area that the Canadian Food Inspection Agency has identified as potentially "contaminated" with TB and have placed a restriction on sales and movements of animals, but I am only guessing.

[countryguy]

As a producer also in this area I would like to ad what I know about the situation.

The Manitoba cattle producers association cannot wait to get this zone in place so they can wipe the sweat off their brow and forget about the whole TB issue.Once this zone is in place we will be left here a small group of producers that will have no clout and no one will give a damn about us.

How convienient it was for them to use the game hunting boundaries,but so obviously stupid.The producer at Roblin who is included in this zone is I am guessing 20 miles from the mountain while the producer on the east side of the town of Riding Mountain a mere 3 miles maybe(guessing again)away from the mountain is not affected by the zone.

Why the gov't is spending all this money testing the cattle herds right now is beyond me.I think they should be going after the source of the problem(the elk) and testing them and cleaning them up first.It isn't helping a thing to test all these cattle while the disease is still being spread.

And again back to the zone.Ultimately it is the elk themselves who are going to decide the actual size of this zone.Elk that have been tagged and being monitored have travelled to the Duck mountains and back.There are elk 40 to 50 miles north of riding mountain and there are elk in the interlake region.The elk travel,always have,always will.For some strange reason though the MCPA or CFIA doesn't seem to see or acknowledge this.Could it be that us little group of producers is going to take the blame for EVERY case of TB that hits Manitoba and possibly farther out???? That's my guess.

[topper]

countryguy and dniak: I raise cattle around the duck mountain, so I'm out of the proposed zone for now, but I can definitely feel for you guys. We too have elk problems and the government could stop a lot of it if they would either feed those elk in the park so they don't have to come in with my cows to eat in the winter or maybe even fence the park and either catch or destroy the remaining animals in the open country. After all we are responsible for keeping our animals fenced in and out of other peoples property, why shouldn't the same apply to the government and it's animals. I could be wrong but I think it would be pretty tough to catch and test the entire elk herd.
The proposed zone is a sham as you say TB doesn't stop at borders. This fall I sold my calves through a saskatchewan market where the heifer calfs were placed in separate pens because of the tb restrictions. These calfs where nose to nose with the saskatchewan calfs so if they where diseased it would have been passed on anyways. Needless to say I got 5 cents less for them. By now any or all of those heifer calves could be in breeding herds in the united states. So this business of creating artificial borders to stop tb has nothing to do with stopping the disease and all to do with getting the americans to give back the tb free status. This strategy by the manitoba government is definitely not going to work. How are they going to stop you from selling your calves in someone else's name or moving your shipping address out of the zone. Even if you do every thing by the book the elk will take the problem elsewhere.
I notice the producers from sask and alberta are very quiet on this issue. I guess they are thinking that it doesn't really affect them. I imagine that will change when the americans realize that any of those manitoba calves in alberta feedlots could cross the border without testing. When their tb free status is lifted by the americans it will get their attention I guarantee it.

[Dniak]

Country Guy makes some very good points. Political descisions are based on cost benifit analysis not scietific basis. If the whole province were to be zoned, the political and economic pressure on the Federal and Provincial government would be enormous. By isolating a few producers there would not be the political pressure to do anything. C.F.I.A could then try and pass this zoned area on to the Americans therebye lifting the down grade of our status.

Let's examine why I beleive why there is no scientific basis for this proposed zone. First of all it is widely believed that the Elk herd is the carrier. Five years ago, R.M.N.P officials would not even admit that the Elk had T.B.. They are admitting it now. As Country boy pointed out the Elk are not restricted to the proposed zone area. They travel yet there is no mention of zone their travel paths. Another good point raised by Country Boy is that the hunting zones being used for the proposed zones are arbritrary. Let us not limit the theory that only Elk are the carriers. I am personally away of deer testing positive for T. B. I am sure that deer carrying T. B are not restricted to this proposed zone area.

The second point I like to make is that as far as I am aware cattle pasturing in the proposed zone area and then leaving by Oct 31 will not be subject to testing. I was told that T. B. can be passed on by saliva. Is it not imaginable that elk, deer lick the same salt blocks as cattle when pasturing. Drink from the same water source.

Thirdly, there have been rumours floating around that there have been confirmed cased of T. B i livestock outside of this zoned area. Yet as Country Boy points out these have always been justified. I have recently heard of two cases. If any one can confirm this I would like to know. If this is true, then their can be no justification for the zone. There are numerous other reasons as to why there is no basis for this zone other than for political motives.

Anyone who lives by R.M.N.P knows what the problem is. Parks Canada has been negligent in managing the ecosystem of the Park. They have created an area that can not support the Elk population. Hence the Elk need to roam to survive. As Country points out TB in Manitoba will not be eradicated until something is done with the Elk and Deer popualtion.

At a latter time I would love to discuss M.C.P.A's role in this whole mess. Let me just say that if this zone area goes through which M.C.P.A supports. We as producers in this area should request are fees back. Maybe this will make them think.

[rookie]

MY sympathy for having this problem. I know the territory between Riding and Duck mountains. I have also trucked cattle for others out of there. I have one question and I heard it when there was alot of fresh debate over the Wood Buffalo National park in northern Alberta. They too had ( have ) a t.b. problem. The question is if the carriers were eliminated ( the elk ) is there a possibility that this disease still remains in the area , i.e. the soil. I am pretty sure I have heard some expert say this. Not good news but food for thought and investigation. If it were true what could this mean. I moved cattle back to my home province of Alberta.

[countryguy]

Topper,don't think for one second that these animals cannot somehow be captured and tested.They sure found ways to catch them when they wanted to sell some to elk farms when they first started.They also caught the 40 animals that they radio collared last winter in an unbelievably small amount of time using helicopters.I just don't think they WANT to do it.They'd rather just beat around the bush like gov't always does!

Rookie,you raise a good question about how long TB hangs around in the soil,one which I will have to check into.I know anthrax lives in the soil but never thought of TB.

[topper]

Dniak or Countryguy: If you guys could get your way on this problem, what exactly would you propose the manitoba government do. Would catching and testing all the elk in RMNP end this problem or would infected deer or maybe even other wildlife reinfect them? There is no doubt we have a problem that has to be addressed by some other means than trying to isolate a few producers for the good of the rest. We have to come up with solutions to fix this problem not hide it. One other thing that crossed my mind is how come if elk migrate between riding mountain and duck mountain, there has never been a case to my knowledge of tb in duck mountain elk. Is this just luck or maybe the elk are victoms just like cattle and something else is causing the problem. There are a lot of unanswered questions that need attention.

[dfarmer2000]

If the federal gov't would allow some hunting in the RMNP maybe it would reduce the TB incidents..(Just a thought or maybe a dream). in the past several years the weather has not been favorable for the hunters to kill an elk. To totally remove the elk from RMNP would create a lot of problems for the feds as they will have all the tree huggers and animal rights activists to deal with.