Round Table wth RItz

[smcgrath76]

Sorry Kato. Although I like your vision,
I think that is the question I would put
to Ritz and press for a non BS answer.
The hard direction he wants to go will
drive people in or out of this business
whether we like it or not.

[kato]

I'm being polite on the outside, but on the inside, I'm pretty much saying what ASRG said.

I also don't think it's asking too much for our government to quit being just another hazard we need to deal with. We've got enough on our plates already. After all, we hired them. That indicates a responsibility to at the very least "do no harm."

Doesn't anyone else find it ironic that we've been done more damage by our own elected officials, than by RCalf and their never ending campaign against us?

[sumdumguy]

Maybe not as important, but what about the
Indian Head tree farm?

[wmoebis]

This came up at coffee shop the other day!

If you had a one to one with Ritz and could ask him ONE question, what would it be?

One guy quickly said "Do you want me to call you an anbulance?"

[grassfarmer]

On blaming the Government for BSE - it's all very
convenient with the benefit of hindsight to attach
blame but where were you guys in the 90s when
Canadian ranchers were importing cattle from the UK
if you think that was the cause? Given the first cases
were in 85/86 and people like the Germans ceased to
import UK cattle in '89 because of BSE. Shouldn't
there have been any precautionary principle exercised
by Canadian ranchers themselves given that the UK
was getting 20,000 -30,000 cases a year at that time?
What about the great cattle organisations like CCA
and it's provincial counterparts? did none of them
think it might be wise to consider not importing UK
cattle?

If you think it's the Governments role to be the nanny
state, to look after you and always know better then
you need to quit bitching about their other attempts
to do so like animal identification. You can't have it
both ways.

[15444]

Now your speaking my language GF.

But you'll learn there are a lot of people in this country...actually, this country is founded on, people who tug on the coat of government looking for a handout while threatening to knock their lights out.

[ASRG]

Wait a minute......Their job was to insure we weren't getting diseases into our livestock.....and they were paid very well to do their job! They screwed up and they know they screwed up!
Don't try to blame me for their bungling!
Do I want them to hold my hand? No....but they brought this shit in, not me....and all the evidence shows they knew what they were doing!
I really forward to the day I will get back some of MY MONEY from these incompetent clods!
Who knows....it might even wake them up enough to do their jobs!

[kato]

grassfarmer, Exactly how would a cattle producer in Manitoba or Ontario, for instance ever have the power to stop someone else from importing an animal that the regulations allowed in the country? If it's legal, then it's legal. If it shouldn't be legal, then who has the responsibility to change it?

Yup.. We all know who that is. And we all know who dragged their heels on it.

Your assumption on the lawsuit is based on not having seen all the evidence. The case would not have stood up to all the multiple efforts by the government to have it thrown out, if there had not been good evidence. It's been before a number of judges already, during this legal ping pong game, and they have ALL said the case has merits, and should go forward.

The problem is that the government is still playing the game of delay.

If they would let it go to court it would all be public. There's a very good reason why they don't want that to happen, so why not mediate?

[kato]

If I had only one question to ask Mr Ritz, it would be "Why don't you sign up for Agri-ville, and talk to the real cattle producers of this country?"

[perfecho]

Kato...I am going to send a link to my MP....maybe even Mr. Ritz, however they usually have underlings reading everything first, so it may not even to them, however I will right down the link on my business card and bring it up if possible.
Good stuff everyone, brought some action to the Beef Discussion for the New Year, at least.....

[grassfarmer]

ASRG "....but they brought this shit in, not me"
Well no actually they didn't - if you believe the
"official" theory it was imported by a Saler breeder in
our part of the country. If however the real cause
were environmental and it is a sporadically occurring
disease (as it must have been originally) who do you
blame then?

kato - what about producer due diligence? do you
all have bio-security programs in place? If you buy in
your feeder calves and they spread ringworm to your
cow herd is that the Governments responsibility too?
Government animal health officials know about
ringworm, so do most beef producers. Why should
knowledge of BSE be any different? Are you telling me
no-one in Canada had the internet or TV or was
reading papers and farm magazines in the 90s?
If you are making decisions to base a several hundred
thousand dollar business on don't you think you have
a responsibility to do your own due diligence? I do -
it's part of business risk management.

[ASRG]

grassfarmer: They KNEW there was a serious problem in the late eighties and they allowed cattle and meat meal in....after they knew!
I never imported any cattle or fed any tainted product......if I did feed it through mineral, it had been guaranteed safe by my government regulators?
Ridley basically admitted responsibility for selling us a tainted product and causing us major losses. The government hasn't. If it doesn't cost them anything why would they ever take responsibility for anything? Why wouldn't it happen again?

[grassfarmer]

Didn't Canadian ranchers know there was a problem
in the late 80's that might make it prudent not to
import live cattle from the UK?

Feed it through mineral? you must be joking! There is
only one possible way it could have got into CDN
cattle from a feed source (if that even happened) and
that is through powdered milk replacer.

Ridley most certainly did not admit responsibility -
they were victims of an act of blackmail where it was
cheaper for them to make a payment rather than fight
the court case. That blackmail was carried out on
behalf of us producers to fund the lawyer fighting the
class action lawsuit. Not our finest moment I don't
think.
If there is proof that Ridley supplied "contaminated"
feed that caused 1 case of BSE in Canada please show
me it as I'm all ears.

[ASRG]

Well Ridley did pay 6 million? If I'm lily white I'm sure not paying no $6 million!
Seeing how I never fed anything but mineral.....and you say no way my cows could catch it from mineral.....then I guess I never did anything wrong? And yet I paid dearly for it.
I guess you can donate your share (if we ever get it) to the government if you don't think you deserve it. I'm sure they'll spend it wisely.....why they might even hire an inspector or two!

[kato]

Cattle were imported.

A positive cow was found.

There was no follow-up on her cohorts to keep them out of the rendering system.

There was no feed ban implemented because of the unfollowed cattle.

A contaminated cow was rendered.
Bits of her got into milk replacer.
Animal plasma - bovine - used to be used to increase the protein level. This is something we were unaware of at the time, and I think that goes for most people.

A calf was fed this milk replacer at a critical time in it's life where transmission across the intestinal barrier is easy.

The calf later became the 2003 BSE cow.

Ridley settled out of court. The government ignored it's responsibility.

Exactly how were we producers supposed to have prevented this? We were not told about the lack of follow up on the remaining cows, or the fact that some may have been rendered before the first one was found. Believe me, if any one of us had known there was a danger in any of the feed that was being used, we WOULD NOT have used it.

But we were not told.

Which is the point of the class action suit.