Feeding costs 2nd attempt

[grassfarmer]

Lets try again.
Was running some figures today on our system of
feeding everything on pasture with the use of silage
bunks/feed rings and portable windbreaks and
wondering how it compares to those using bale
grazing systems.
My figures per head/per day fed came out to:

Tractor ownership, repairs, depreciation and
insurance - 7.5c/day (probably overstated and this
allocates total cost to the cattle feeding operation)

Fuel - 3.5c/day

Silage wagon ownership/repair - 1c/day

Feed bunk/feed ring/windbreak inventory - 1.5c/day

Heating quonset for tractor - 1.5c/day

Labor @$20/hour - 19c/day

For a total of 34c/day.

Looking at these figures a couple of things struck me.
1. What a good investment feed rings/bunks are
relative to the feed wastage they save. Makes me
really question any system of feeding on the ground
without some type of feeder.

2. The only real significant difference between
feeding daily or bale grazing type systems is the labor
component and I'm not even sure that difference is as
real as it looks.
The other costs are easy because they are cash costs
- labor isn't so simple unless I'm paying someone
$20/hr to feed cows. In some ways it could be seen
as more of a lifestyle choice than a real financial
difference. If I spend 3 hours a day feeding cows and
allocate myself $60 for that then move to a system
where I feed for 1 hour a day I'm not $40 a day better
off - I just have 2 hours more spare time on my
hands. So unless you are freeing up time that you use
to make money doing something else I question if
there is even a difference worth taking about in
financial terms anyway between bale grazing or
hauling feed to animals.

[smcgrath76]

GF - costs are pretty close. Where we
see the savings is in tractor hours and
diesel. With Bale Grazing we drop the
feed off the truck in the field and each
bale moves at most about 300'. When we
feed out of the yard, we are often
working on a round trip distance of 1
1/2 or more miles per bale (3/4 out, 3/4
back). With bale grazing it also
becomes more feasible to feed cattle
farther away from home as a single
tractor trip will feed cattle all
winter.
It takes us between 6 and 8 hours total
to set out our bale grazing for 300
head, saving at least 2 hours every day
all winter depending on how far out we
feed. We also don't plug in a tractor
other than for pushing snow or other
rare occasions like moving windbreaks.
I have not got our numbers done for this
year, but our economic savings (not
cash) last year were just over $50 per
head. Labour is a big one around here
as I have lots of other things on the
go.
The other risk here is that we run older
equipment, and I like reducing my
equipment hours and risk of things not
running.
We don't see a lot of waste with the
cows, but maybe we are tougher on our
cows than others are. Calves we waste a
bit, although cows clean up after, and
sometimes when we graze on rented
farmland that is in poorer shape we will
leave more behind on purpose to build OM
a little quicker.

[Horse]

Would need to know the numbers of cows involved. I think your fuel numbers are low thats less than 1 gal/day on 100 cows and I sure dont have any tractors that run that cheap in winter.
I have a neibor that feeds sq bails by hand with a tobogan to his 30 cows he works out in summer and feeds and plays cowboy in winter very little waste with sq bails but a lot of labor.

[grassfarmer]

The fuel number is accurate Horse - it's an easy one
to measure. I find you can save a lot by planning for
efficiency - my ideal is to have enough animals in
each lot that I can make 1 trip in 2 days with a load of
silage and a bale. Doesn't always work out like thats
my ideal.
I also don't practice that Canadian custom of doing
barn chores then starting the tractor and leaving it to
warm up while I go and have my breakfast! Still can't
believe how much fuel people waste in this country
with engines idling.

[15444]

I agree with most of what you said Sean.

But I am with you Horse on GF's fuel numbers.

On 100 cows it won't buy you a gallon of fuel, and if your trying to spread the manure, spacing bales with rings out in snow 3' deep can eat up a lot of time.

Now if your in a lot, I might agree somewhat with the 3.5 cents, but then you have to figure out your manure spreading costs.

[grassfarmer]

Anyone want to venture their own numbers versus
pick holes in mine?
Actually time taken to move bunks/rings is minimal -
it's distance from feed yard to cows that eats up the
time.

[smcgrath76]

GF - I agree with that synopsis about distance from the feedyard. I will try to explain our costs and how we figure it.
We take 6 - 8 hours each fall to place bales depending on how far away we are feeding. Last year it took exactly 20 gallons
of fuel and this year right around 22. Last year we never ran the tractor again, except to push our driveway starting in
February. This year we have put some additional hours on moving slabs and plowing a lot of snow.
Chores here are 3 hours per week on average feeding 300 head. At $25/hour that works out to $0.036 per head day for labour.
I am not sure what the depreciation is on a 4240 from 1981, but we are saving roughly 14 to 21 tractor hours per week and
associated costs. With a 4240 that works out to around 25 to 30 gallons of diesel a week (not sure the price at the moment
as we have not bought diesel in several months). We also save about 3 KW of power each day as we don't plug in the 1500W
block heater for 2 hours. That is another $0.14 to $0.18 per day.
We do have the odd week where we will put in more chores (this week before the cold snap for example and a couple of weeks
ago when we had some cows out). I track all of these hours every day and add them up at year end.
It is a bit hard to quantify what you don't spend, but as an example, yesterday was -43 in the breeze and we never had to
turn a wheel.

Prior to bale grazing (2 years ago) we fed for 90 days which was pretty traumatic for us. We wound up at 3 hours per day on
the tractor and two breakdowns in excess of $200 each time and a truck repair bill of $1500 for a front end. It took us more
than one slip tank of diesel to feed that way, when normally once our bales are placed (barring pushing yard) we aim for a
jerry can or less of diesel in the winter. For us that sucks a lot of profit and fun out of the deal.

Probably not all the number you wanted, but I will try to add detail if you are interested.

[grassfarmer]

Good detailed figures Sean. I don't think there are
right figures or wrong figures but the biggest
complaint I have with the bale grazing is I've never
seen a system where so many costs are
misrepresented to make it look good.

You quote 6-8 hours to place bales in the fall - fair
enough if you are buying them and they get dropped
off in the area you want to use for no additional cost.
Lots of guys are hauling their home made bales from
one area of the ranch to another and omitting that
cost when comparing to a more conventional feeding
system.
I also see a dumbed down way of bale grazing where
you haul the bales to the cows on a wagon in the
winter and thereby replace your daily chore time with
2 or 3 times a week feeding. I question with this
system if you are saving enough to cover the
increased wastage through bale grazing.

Anyone that has feeding equipment - rings or bale
processors that they don't use now that they bale
graze still needs to factor in the cost of them.

So if it only takes you 3 hours a week to feed do you
visit the cattle at other times during the week to
check on them? if you do I say the cost of any fuel
and depreciation on your truck has to be included as
a cost - that is one benefit we get for "free" with
daily/2nd day feeding.

On the tractor front depreciation is certainly minimal
on an older tractor but I think you also need to factor
in replacement cost because as we all know they can
turn around and need a new clutch tomorrow. In your
situation not using it much in winter certainly reduces
the risk and urgency of having a major repair. I got to
my figure for this by allowing $30,000 over 10 years.
Say buy used at $20,000 allow $10,000 for repairs
and assume it's worthless after 10 years. I likely
overstated my cost for this but like to err on the side
of caution. The cost of tractor ownership worries me
more than the cost of fuel.
We work with an old tractor too and have found that
modifying an old quonset and using the existing gas
heater to be valuable piece of mind. For a little over
$2/head fed over the winter I keep the tractor, a
truck, a dog and a couple of small calves warm and
comfortable. Starting with oil that isn't at -40C makes
things run smoother and I'm sure reduces our risk of
breakdowns.

[smcgrath76]

Cows I can see out of the window of my
house this winter. If they show up in
the swath grazing field I know they are
out of bales.
Calves we can see from the other house
and the young bunch we drive by on the
way to town for other things like
getting groceries. As well, the lady we
rent from over there keeps and eye on
things, so we are lucky that way.
We do spend 15 minutes or so in the
morning checking water and throwing hay
to horses.
I agree with the truck cost being an
important factor and it is one of the
things we try to keep down to a minimum.
Tractor cost worries me as even decent
used tractors cost a fair chunk of
change. Our last tractor we pulled
35000 hours out of before we sold it
(it's still running) and I am hoping to
do the same with this one, so I should
have a lot of years to go.

[ALLFARMER]

Very good point Sean most equipment lasts allot
longer then most people think it does. Just do
your upkeep and run er right. A mechanic looked
at the transmission on my 4440 and he said it
looked like new. North of 10,000 hrs on er. I see
4440 with 6500 hours selling for 15,000$.
Certainly an older tractor but slap down 200k on a
new one??? Lots of log trucks running around
with over a million miles on them. Truck I drive
looks like it could make 2 million miles.

[grassfarmer]

Problem is these older tractors won't last for ever and
the newer ones are not designed for longevity. Once
you get into electronics and computers on a tractor
the vibration, dust or dampness will play havoc with
them over the long haul. My tractor will roll over
16,000 hrs in the next few days - I only put 1000 of
these hours on it but it was well cared for by the
previous owner. This is the first tractor in my life I've
put 1000 hours on with no expense other than oil
changes and filters.

[ALLFARMER]

Ya electronics on equipment is not all good.
When I bought my D6 the mechanic told me at
least they can be still fixed without Finning.

Tractors are going to be like cars...throw away
items not worth fixing.

[tizhot]

We run 300 cows and calve out in March. Tractor is plugged in or in heated shop everyday (along with the processor). Takes 1.5hrs minimum to feed. After storm days or really cold spells its bedding(although we keep it to a minimum). Cows are on average 1 mile from yard.We make 2-3 trips per day so at most 6miles. Does my tractor warm up? Yup. Ten mins is good other than the -45 day last week it ran for 1.5hrs first. (should of been in the shop!) We also feed culls till Feb/March in corral,replacements and bulls. Really don't feel like figuring out my costs after typing this. Call me an idot but thats our way of doing things. Tried swath grazing one year and grew such a huge crop of triticale that I almost killed some cows so we won't go there again. Don't get me wrong we watch our costs in the feed end but labor and mechanical costs (although expensive) we don't look at enough. Ok I do sound like an idot!

[grassfarmer]

Your system must be very time efficient feeding those
numbers with 6 miles hauling included. What was the
problem with the triticale swath grazing - grain
overload?

[tizhot]

We try to be effecient and 1.5hrs is not spending time looking at everyone, so it takes longer 2-3 times/week. Grain overload was the cause. I let them have enopugh swaths that I figured they would be done in three days. I should actually talk to someone for advice. But I assume you wouldn't fence off enough for a day. If that was the case you would be moving electric wire everyday!