EID Readers

[Horse]

GF While the consumer is scaning this steak should we also play a little video of what a happy calfhood this steak had and the reason he or she didnt make it into the herd , also mabey a short explanation no how well it died and went to a better place.
Give me a break I know I am a dinasour but this now generation with all the electronics and toys are a mega pain in the ass. Gust because we can dosent mean we have to.

[DogPatch]

I think the biggest issues with retention problem are exaggerated many times over.
Often the problems are bigger the more opposed you are about RFID. Most problems are blamed on the tag, and not on the fences, storage and handling of the tags being used, the capabilities of the person applying the tags, or how much patience they have (or don't have). How else can you explain why some have little or no problems, while others are having problems? Cripes its just a tag, and shouldn't take a rocket scientist to put it in the ear to stay!

[SADIE]

<a href="http://s1138.photobucket.com/albums/n523/kphaber/?action=view&current=DVDCover_zps2e500540. jpg" target="_blank"></a>

[grassfarmer]

Good post dog patch, very true.

[ALLFARMER]

The percentage of people who want to watch a
video of the farm the calf/steak came from is
pretty small. Certainly not enough people to
warrent the expense. People want their Big Mac's
or Angus burgers cheap. The cheaper the better.

My CCIA tags go in a day or 2 before shipping so
only 1 percent loss possibly here. When doing a
hundred or so head a few do fail right away. Thats
been our experience anyway. Still managed to
get charged by NBI for tagging a few anyway.
Guess thats ok my second cousin is marrying one
of the Nilsson kids so I'll overlook it. Lol

[DogPatch]

The middle tag in the photo was obviously not put in correctly or had been partly pulled out because the cow snagged it on a twine or fence. The lower one looks like the wrong tag button was used. Otherwise, why is there such a difference in the color between the two parts?

PERSONALLY I think the photos in that "ad" were staged

[DogPatch]

The middle tag in the photo was obviously not put in correctly or had been partly pulled out because the cow snagged it on a twine or fence. The lower one looks like the wrong tag button was used. Otherwise, why is there such a difference in the color between the two parts?

PERSONALLY I think the photos in that "ad" were staged

[15444]

Dogpatch, you'd make one heck of a bureaucrat.

[smcgrath76]

I'll bite.
We don't put RFID in at birth, but we do put them in at first processing
(branding time). We own a very fancy RFID reader and it is pretty useful.
We also use visual tags and they are pretty useful. We also brand and use
a steel bangs tag. We also have a DNA sample collected and analyzed on
every cow and bull in the herd.
We lose a few RFID tags and it is a bit of a PITA to check prior to
shipping, but we do and we send an affadavit that everything was checked
and in place prior to loading the truck.
We are trying to use the RFID to add value, and have all our calves age
verified (takes about 5 minutes) and in the BIXS system. We even have
some data back, but at this point I would not say that data is useful on a
per animal basis.
I feel very much in agreement with both Sadie and GF if that is possible.
We are trying to use the tag to obtain value out of the marketplace and
are not driven by the regulations but by trying to add value (Eg: age
verifying prior to the regulation requiring it), but we are in the strange
position of living with a lack of sympathy for the regulations and a
distrust of the folks with their fingers in the process. I think the
Canadian industry by and large is very much not about adding value to
beef, but more about adding value to feed.

[SADIE]

I just got home from the first set of 5 government Federal & Prov reps PFRA meetings scheduled aroung the province.

That is another story another place and another time.

That DVD jewel Case cover was made after the 2010 June 15 hearing and after I got my written result in Sept 2010.

The middle tag---of course---ripped ear.

The bottom button with the back gone came in from the research done at Fairview Animal Tech College. This came from a colleague Dr. Art Shatz who was the Bovine Practioner of the year in 1969 WCVM first graduating class. He practiced for years at the huge multiman clinic in Wainwright Alberta. This evidence came in from their research and that was the first finding of the heavy weight RFID blob falling out of the ears on the cows at the Fairview college.

The top tag is when producers that had problems and had RFID tags in the ears of adult animals for at least 2 years started looking at the backs of the buttons and seeing the first crack around the washer.

As this evidence came in and was forwarded to CCIA technical personnel in Ontario who by the way knew their was a problem but CCIA wouldn't let him pursue that avenue. Once this started to come in the companies (ALLFLEX) started to increase the plastic material on the buttons.

After 2009 and with several heated conversations with ALLFLEX reps the veterinarians were able to convince AllFLEX to be able to purchase extra buttons --bags of 25 to have on hand with longer pins for adult animals.

This came about because of the wrecked buttons while trying to apply this RFID in RETAGGING in cows and especially BULLS. This was also made available for the BISON people also to be able to purchase extra Male Buttons for these animals.

This DVD has grown in length with new information being added as it comes forth. It is now close to 60 minutes in length showing the progression of this story.

Sean I appreciate you candid input. You know me. I wanted to follow that route also but not no more.

The lies to cattlemen, the false propaganda,the lack of Canadian Field trials,

It now has become another issue of the industry. IF it works for Grassfarmer, dogpatch and you Sean Do it and I hope you make extra $$ in your efforts.

I will only do what I have to. I will tag only to prevent the extra charge at the market if one is missin. CFIA threats I am not worried about any longer---I beg them to try and apply another tag fine to me---I have asked them to.

I won't be very easy on them this time. I know how and who I can suppena and It will be people that are or where leaders of the CCA or CCIA I want to put on the witness stand as My witness and under oath ask them the questions that I want to ask.

Oh the media would love another story on this one.

[grassfarmer]

Sean, you are a technical and system design type guy
- what do you think specifically about the reader
systems shown in my original videos? Quite
impressive eh?

[smcgrath76]

GF - A couple of things, not necessarily system designed.
RFID can work, and these systems can work from a technical perspective. I am not
sure how hard we have tried to make it work for low cost as the actual technology
is pretty cheap. I don't like the UHF tags (that can be read from a long
distance) as they can't be used to collect data, since any reader will pick up
tags in too large a radius. Useful if you are trying to track bears, not if you
are trying to weigh cattle. They are useful if you just want traceability with no
value add (eg: scan a truck and get a list of the animals on board.
I think there is opportunity in these systems to do things like: Auction mart
individually weighing calves on the fly and giving back a weaning weight report,
etc.
I doubt we we will ever see these implemented for several reasons...
1) limited political will
2) declining volumes through auction
3) most guys don't really care
RFID really don't serve a purpose unless you are going to use them. For
traceability putting them in at the loading chute is fine. For on farm
identification, most aren't going to use them. If you are selling cattle direct
and have some sort of data feedback arrangement, they have added value.
To be honest I can't see why you would even put a floppy tag in a calf at birth
unless you were going to weigh them at weaning, or have some sort of record
system.
We have seen issues with specific batches of tags here (some of what Sadie shows)
and there needs to be continued tracking of losses and construction standards, but
by and large we have very few losses. The pasture system is in a conundrum
(although less so now) as they are federal and can hardly not mandate a National
ID tag as a requirement. If they wanted to innovate they could have easily done
some of these weaning weight provision or AI programs that folks could have
accessed. I saw tail tags and RFID being used successfully in Australia over 10
years ago to access markets. We were using RFID tags in progeny test cattle long
before national ID and I was convince then.
I think our marketing system sucks and until that changes there is no way for RFID
not to be a cost and instead become an opportunity. Use of RFID in the US is
growing for the very reason that calves with an RFID that are age and source
verified are commanding more $. I think this cattle shortage will make some of
this differentiation go away to the long term detriment of the industry. I really
believe that BSE provided us with more innovation than we have had in a long time,
although it definitely also created a lot of hardship and losses. I think it
would be interesting to make RFID non-mandatory and see if there was a premium for
age/source/rfid tagged cattle. I think there would be, but I appreciate the
challenge of traceback only being effective if it is on everything.

[kato]

The way I heard it from those who were doing the trials at the auction marts with these tags is that they didn't all read. And when they didn't all read, it slowed things down a LOT when they had to go back into the group and track down the one that the scanner didn't pick up. The main intention was that traceability should not slow down the speed of commerce, and the scanners didn't meet that requirement. They weren't able to catch all the tags.

For example, if I hauled my calves to a mart, for a presort, and one out of a bunch didn't scan, so they put them off to the side, then ran them through again when they had time, and then finally ran them over the scale, I would not be happy with the shrink on those calves. That's called slowing down the speed of commerce.

Before this traceability is going to work, there needs to be scanners that pick up every single tag every time. Less than that is just going to make the system less efficient, and guess who will pay for that?

We will.

I have no problem with traceability and tracking and all that if it can be used as a tool to get more money out of our cattle. The problem is that we don't get more money for our trouble. All we get is red tape and paperwork. And dragged into court.

No one else in this world will do extra work without being paid for it. Why are we expected to?

[smcgrath76]

So here are a couple of thoughts...
Can we not just read on feedlot
arrival/processing which is done on an
individual basis? How many tags are
lost between farm and feeder?
Next question - which markets might we
lose if we eliminated trace-ability?
What would be the impact on price?
Next question - is taking cattle to the
auction market really target marketing?
Does that develop a premium or target a
specific market? Why does this deserve
a premium (not saying it doesn't - just
wondering)?
Are there new ways of marketing we are
missing by failing to use/adopt
technology? eg: neighbours selling
together using a direct approach and
known genetics with an accompanying
spreadsheet with health records tied to
RFID tag.
I do think the way it is done today
leaves no room to extract a premium, but
just putting in or failing to put in a
tag does not in my mind justify a
premium for cattle. Prior to RFID there
was no premium for cattle that came in
with a handwritten floppy tag vs. those
that came in empty eared. There was a
premium for larger drafts of quality
cattle from reputation herds.
I think a large part of this debate is
really a marketing debate about the
future of the auction system and how
comfortable we feel dealing without it.

[grassfarmer]

Some great points to consider Sean. Personally I'm
not looking to gain a premium by attaching any kind
of ear-tag as it obviously doesn't add value per se
to the animal or to the beef. I really, really believe
we need a traceability system and by that I don't
mean knowledge of the farm/ranch of birth. We
need to know the movements of the animals in case
of a severe health breakdown like F M. The current
system of manifests and brand inspection would be
so woefully inadequate in face of such a crisis that
I'm more than happy to invest $3 per animal to
achieve a better system. Unfortunately all the $3s
I've spent to date have been for nothing because
nobody thinks there is a need for a real movement
tracking system.