AGLA Meeting Feb 27.

[Happytrails]

For those who may be interested the Alberta Grazing Leaseholders Assn annual meeting is at the Medicine Hat Lodge tomorrow Feb 27 at 1:00 pm. The AGLA is likely the best advocate to government we leaseholders have. So if you care BE THERE!!

[grassfarmer]

There you go Horse, your chance to raise some heck.

[Horse]

Damm I would love to be there BUT I cant afford the bodyguards I would need. Some of those welfare cowboys can get a little fiesty as I found out when I wrote a rebutal to a colum on how downtroden the leases holders were . I had phone calls and letters from many in and around the welfare capital of southern alta congratulating me on my stand saying the truth needs to be told.and when I asked why more didnt do it I was informed strange things happened to those who oposed lease holders like fires and lost livestock basicaly ostercised from the comunity. I have never seen it rationalized how renting grass on a AUM computes into multi mill$ oil revenue justified.
If any one goes I sure would be interested in a report on the meeting.

[Happytrails]

I suspected that hoarse would feel the need to contribute. Isn't envy one of the deadly sins?

[Horse]

Happytrails just how much an I enveous of 160 acres or 16000 acres ? How big is your stake? Enough to be very defencive of aperantly.
MIGHT NEED A JOB IFN YOU HAD TO PAY REASONABLE RATES??

[per]

Leases change hands all the time Horse, why not step up to the plate and take a swing. You can prove you point how big of a gravy train they are.

[Happytrails]

Good point per. Can you make it tomorrow?

[per]

Sorry HT, two meetings in Calgary tomorrow.

[Happytrails]

That is too bad. I will report my impressions here later.

[rkaiser]

Stand yer ground horse. I for one like an outside the box opinion. Wonder how many of them there leases that come up for sale have the oil revenue gravy attached for nothing.

The worst excuse I hear from the lease holder defenders is the jealousy issue. Can't ya come up with something better than that boys?

Oil money has definately made some lease holders into millionares and it has little to do with management or cattle. Leases are as unique as private property and have almost as much variance in value. Fun to hear the defenders though, and as Horse says, show us yer books. LOL Kinda like asking Cargill I guess.

[Horse]

All you lease holders mabey I could sell you the Saddledome I dont own it but what has that got to do withanything.
I cant see how these things got turned into money trees , Years ago people rented grass for a few cows or just to keep the neibour from getting it but how did they get the right to lease well sites to oil companies ? You cant re lease to your neibour to run cows on rules is they have to belong to the leaseholder.
Where there is free money there will always be freeloaders looking to pick it up. Hell there is an lease holder here that sells sand from the lease, gov says alright because the crown still gets royalties?? Another one 5 1/4 lease With pads $70 thou, 2 other 300 cows leases oil pays all costs plus. Tell me again its not welfare youall just got to the head of the line is all. And no doubt pay a pretty PC contribution.

[ASRG]

If you were renting farm land and an oil company wanted to put a lease in the middle of your barley, wouldn't you expect to be compensated for the loss of use and the adverse effect?
If you are the renter, the oil company must deal with you because you do have a vested interest in the land.
I'm not sure what you expect from the leaseholder? Is he supposed to put up with the nuisance and cost of an invasive oil lease for free? If so....is that specified in the grazing lease contract? Or are you advocating that the government can change the contract whenever it wants?
Who in their right mind would want to be in business with someone who can change the deal whenever they want?
Be very careful here.....if the government can change or alter a contract arbitrarily.....they can change or alter your land title as well!
Horse you have a very narrow view of property rights.......grazing leases are real property....decided in the courts a long time ago! To deny the lease owner his rights is one more step to eliminating ALL property rights.

[Horse]

Asrg Let me get this straight If I rent land from you and An oil co wants to drill I get the entry fee ,loss of use, nusiance factor, anual rent and when I feel kike it I can also sell my rental agrement to whoever I want. Boy do I wish you were closer besause I would be your best buddy.
Lets put these leases into perspective without fear mongering that if the lease holders were asked to pay fair market value it is somehow going to affect my own holdings, Would you rent your land under the same circumstances as the gov does? The lease is 10yr and at the ministers descretion how would increasing the rate change any of that.
Lets take a 1/4 and say 30AUM at 1.39 $42 plus taxes , thats what you have to work with but if said 1/4 has a pad with 6 wells generating $10 thou plus 30AUM should it not be worth more rent???
As for real property the banks were the ones pushing for that because lease holders wanted money against them to gobble up more land that was liable to have exploration developed. It has had nothing to do with cows or grass for the last 50 yr.
I am not against leases but I am against the way they are administered some are no more than private hunting reserves and at my last count there was app 6500 leases in the prov and 3600 of them had some anual rent being paid from resources, add on sisemic,pipeline and entry fees and you are looking at upwards of 100mill and thats a lot more than the cows generate.
One lease $470,000 income $71,000 rent . Dosent that make you shake your head??

[smcgrath76]

I am interested to hear that you can use your lease to borrow against,
this is a new one on me and I would question a bank that would do it.
When you buy a lease it is not "owned property" even though the rights
to the lease are "real property" and you cannot obtain a mortgage to
buy a lease using the lease as collateral. A lease does not increase
your equity. I think the biggest issue surrounding leases is the
surface rights issues brought forth by oil and what is fair to the
lessee and the public. This was not an issue in the early days of
government leases. I do think there needs to be continuity available
for lessees for long term stewardship of lands that are often
ecologically fragile. Opening things up in a free for all encourages
patronage and potato farms as nearly as I can see.

[Horse]

The main reason for leases is the land was not realy goodenough to homestead and some that was was turned back for lack of improvement. Lots of the land was leased over 100yr ago when land was plentiful and ranchers needed cheap graze , well here we are 100 yr down the road and graze is still cheap but resourses are a valuable source of income . But you are supose to have animals to graze in order to keep a lease, BUT its turned around so people keep cows to keep the lease.