The "dog in the manger" attitude

[ASRG]

We've all heard the story of the "dog in the manger"? It seems it's almost human nature to be envious if someone is percieved to be getting more than us!
I've seen it so many times in my work on surface rights, water uses, property rights, etc.
You would not believe how a lot of landowners get all bent out of shape because some farmers benifit from irrigation!
We've seen it here, on grazing leases!
What really bugs me is the attitude some take when they learn their neighbour negotiated a better deal than they did on a surface lease or pipeline right of way.....never thinking the guy who did well actually achieved the good price because he did his homework, put some effort into it, and worked hard to take care of his interests! The complainer usually never did anything, never got informed by sharing his information, just grumbled how he was getting shafted!

[grassfarmer]

I guess it's just human nature. I don't have an opinion
either way on the lease land issue but I do find it
ironic that some of the leaseholders are the most
vocal opponents of the supply management sector.
Everybody is entitled to their own opinions but if the
supporters of lease land say "if it's so great a deal
why don't you buy some?" they should maybe follow
their own advice with regard to the supply
management issue rather than try to destroy the
system.

[Horse]

Call me a dog in the manger if you want but I also disagred with the no meet comitie that got $1000/mo for not meeting in the legislature some times it takes one to make a stand and I feel this is worthwhile.

[Happytrails]

I have to bite on GF's shot comparing grazing leases to supply management. There is a huge difference between investing in grazing capacity and paying for permission to produce. One is buying into a system to generate wealth from the land. The other is a scheme to boost income by preventing wealth creation. Milk and butter and cheese are wealth. Money is just dirty paper.

[grassfarmer]

The difference is in your head HT. Both scenarios are buying into a system to generate wealth from the
land. You turn forage into calves the dairy farmer
turns forage into milk. Milk and butter and cheese are
wealth - so are calves - you get money for selling
them just as the dairy farmer does when he sells his
milk.

[ASRG]

I come at it from the property rights side. Both the grazing lease and the production quota are real property and neither can be expropriated without fair compensation and due process.
Due process is: a notice, a hearing, and a judgement by your peers. This is commonly referred to as the "rule of law". Without it we are a society of outlaws!

[Horse]

The ACC did a study as to the value of grazing leases and the conclusion was what is being sold is the difference between the actual value of what is being leased and what it should be, so if anyone wants to pay a premium for a lease I fail to see where the public should be asked to cover thier losses, I am not saying take thier lease away I an saying give them what they leased GRASS!!! and at a fair price not 3% of val;ue

[ASRG]

The leaseholder didn't lease the "grass", he leased the surface property. He is not a renter....he is a real property owner.
A "grazing lease" is real property....that has been established in the courts.
If you or the Crown don't think the property owner has any rights, you can take it before the courts.
Good luck with that!

[ASRG]

The leaseholder didn't lease the "grass", he leased the surface property. He is not a renter....he is a real property owner.
A "grazing lease" is real property....that has been established in the courts.
If you or the Crown don't think the property owner has any rights, you can take it before the courts.
Good luck with that!

[ASRG]

Horse: Back in 1215 the English landowners got tired of the King stealing their land, throwing them in jail, and executing them without any reason.
They forced the King to sign the Magna Carta which gave them the right to life, liberty, and property. The king could not jail them, kill them, steal their property without due process of the law.
These became the basis of our democracy and the "rule of law" as opposed to the "rule of the whims of a King".
When you call for the elimination of property rights, you are calling for a return to "rule by the Crown"!
Is that very smart?

[ASRG]

Horse: Back in 1215 the English landowners got tired of the King stealing their land, throwing them in jail, and executing them without any reason.
They forced the King to sign the Magna Carta which gave them the right to life, liberty, and property. The king could not jail them, kill them, steal their property without due process of the law.
These became the basis of our democracy and the "rule of law" as opposed to the "rule of the whims of a King".
When you call for the elimination of property rights, you are calling for a return to "rule by the Crown"!
Is that very smart?

[ASRG]

Sorry....don't know what is with the double posts.

[Horse]

I do believe we pesants of the great country of Canada do not have property rights under the constuition. Thanks in part at least to P.E.T.
Go check that out and tell me how lease holders have rites the rest of us dont?

[Horse]

If they rent land as oposed to grass why in the hell did the leases get made up for AUMs and not acres , and why does some leases have 20 AUM and some have 60AUM, per 1/4 , just where is the formula to rate that. Why is there supose to be x amount of grass left at the end of grazing season and not how many acres???