Frostfree Nosepumps

[Eastcoaster]

Has any of you have any experience with the frostfree nosepumps for a watering system? Looking to do something for next winter, started wintering my cows further away and don't have a continious supply of water in that area. Got by this winter but there was a period I was worried they weren't getting enough water and very little snow. I'm concerned that if I went to a energy free type bowl that there maybe times that the cows may be going to natural flowing sources of water and not drinking enough from the bowl and that it may freeze. Any suggestions?

[perfecho]

I would also be interested in different watering systems that are less energy. Finding my power bills are getting totally out of hand and would like to know what works for other producers.
Larry

[kato]

We got an older Ritchie energy free waterer at an auction sale last summer. We put a backup submersible heater in it that uses the same energy as a light bulb, as well as a heat tape down the intake line. The submersible heater can't be too hot, since it's sitting on plastic! We put the heater in because the pipe coming out of the ground is a lot smaller than they recommend to make use of ground heat. It works like a charm. We've had some good cold temperatures to test it too. I don't think it even comes remotely close to the cost of running a conventional water bowl.

We love it. Eventually all the waterers are going to be replaced with these. We were told by people at the sale that putting it in a sheltered area out of the wind is the key.

[Horse]

The niebor has what he calls a wet well. About 20in pipe 20ft deep and a solar pump down hole with water bowl on stand pipe with motion sensor so when cows come to waterer pump kicks in when they leave bowl drains back, works good for him but only has about 30 cows, dont know how much battery one would need for a large herd,he has just 1 battery and dont know for sure how large solar panen. Cost about $600 I think for the setup, not counting diging in for stand pipe.

[kato]

We saw one of those when we went on a grazing tour. It seemed to work OK. The guy who had it loved it.

[15444]

I'll be putting the finishing touches on a wet well system this spring. We dug out an old pond last year and put the culvert in. I opted for a 15" double wall plastic instead of a 24" steel.

The solar panels are going to run around $600-800 for 200-300 watts. Being that we don't get sun every day in the winter, one battery won't be enough. Think more along the lines of 4 to 6 batteries, maybe even 8. Put them in an old freezer chest to insulate them.

I'm putting the system together myself, rather than buying the kit. You save a little bit of money. But if tinkering isn't your thing, go with the kit.

[ALLFARMER]

The biggest thing I like about my wet well is I
always know the water level in my dug out. I have
a submersible pump in the wet well and a jet
pump sucking from the dug out. Both pumps in
my pump house.

[Eastcoaster]

When you say you dug out an old pond do you mean you have gotten rid of it or cleaned it out and are going to pump water from it? What sort of bowl are you using and does it drain of after each use? If draining,how so, with a small diameter down the supply pipe?

[15444]

We cleaned out the old pond. It was roughly 6' deep, 30' wide and 40' long. With the drought it was dry as a bone by mid-August. We dug it out to 12' deep, 65' wide and 80' long. In the center, we hit a vein of water, so we dug a smaller hole in the center, so true dead center is 24-25' deep.

I've been figuring out the system in my head for about 2 years now. The bowl will be a plastic 'critter feeder' bowl (used in 15" tires as feed bowls). Drill out holes around the top edge for overflow, and a few very small holes in the bottom for drainage. The pump will be a simple bilge pump, that will self drain after it is done pumping. Taking 3/4 or 1 inch line from the pump up to the bowl.

I posted a thread about it on another site with lots of pics, take a look.

http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=80769&p=970659&hilit=neighbors #p970659

[grassfarmer]

I have a couple of the real "frost free nose pumps" go
to frostfreenosepumps.com for info on them.
Really like them - once installed it's only cow power
involved. No solar, no batteries no water bowl to
freeze up. If it doesn't get above -20C by day you
need to break the ice that accumulates on them but
other than that you don't need to touch them. I
probably had to break ice off about 5 days this
winter. They recommend 1 pump per 100 cows in
winter but you can have two pumps (or more) on one
culvert if you have a bigger herd. We find the cows
trail to them once a day (up to a mile round trip) then
lick snow the rest of the time. Once they know how to
use them they prefer it to eating snow.

The trick is getting the cows trained to use them -
not as easy as the literature suggests. Lucky for me
the guy that makes them lives about 10 miles away
and he has a "training pump" consisting of a pump
mounted on a foot high culvert with a container
inside that you hook a garden hose to. In the spring
when the weather is warm I borrow it and shut the
replacement heifers in a corral with the trainer pump
and they all learn in 24 hours how to work it. Older
cows that we have bought in learn to use it from
other cows but getting the young cows to use it was a
challenge before we discovered the training pump.
Once set up and with cattle trained I think it is an
outstanding system and one that should last for a
very long time as it is heavy built and nothing to
wrong with it.

[15444]

I liked the idea behind the frost free nose pumps, but the price scared me away. I can understand 600 or maybe even 700 a unit. But over a grand is ridiculous.

[grassfarmer]

15444, if the water source you hit is producing 4000
gallons a day in a drought why do you need all that
(dugout) storage capacity? Could you not just have
piped the source into a wet well or nose pump and
filled the hole in - that way you don't lose anything to
evaporation?

[15444]

The water hit the level you saw in the pond pictures and stayed static - it never rose above that point.

We had thought about putting a pump in, and it still is an option in the future.

However, that would involve putting in hydro to that property. And you don't do that in Ontario anymore without the bill climbing towards the 5k mark - labour cost alone for an Ontario hydro crew is just shy of $300/hour and the clock starts when you call them. For us, it could cost $600 just for them to get to the gate.

The last hydro bill is showing Ontario inching towards 10 cent/kwhour. Getting a little too pricey to use hydro anymore.

[grassfarmer]

With the nose pump you don't have an ongoing cost
of solar panel and battery replacement so I'd think it
is about a wash - just you are paying out upfront.

[15444]

Well GF, you say that the recommendation for the nose pumps was 1 pump for 100 cows. But somehow I remember it being closer to 1 for 30 cows. I thought it said that on the website.

Also, I remember them not being recommended as the sole source of watering in hot weather. I'm sick of pumping water into troughs every morning in the summer.

I could also see it being a problem with very young, 2-3 week old calves in getting adequate water on 30 degree days.