Water Wells and Water Witches

[ASRG]

Well it's my pocket book and my personal life.....so I guess I'll just believe what I want. And no, what I believe in doesn't affect anyone else....I've never held a gun to anyones head and said "You have to believe what I say is true!"
And by the way the local licensed water well driller who has drilled most of the wells in the area actually recommended the local water witch!
I believe in the Christian faith as well....probably another irrational choice...no science or experts to support it?
As a side note: grassfarmer my water witch also used a pendulum....but I have seen a county worker map out a water line with bent rods.....every municipal and utility company has a few guys who can do this.

[oneoff]

First everyone has to concede that the world is flat

And dowsers have to concede that where there is a near 100% certainty of the possibly of multiple zones of differing and varying quantity and quality of water at multiple predictable depths. Some aquifers are identifiable continuous beds (that can and do vary somewhat in thickness, porosity and permeability.)

And not one soul on this earth could guaratee everthing that is going on more than three feet below surface.

Fat chance of those agreements.

In such a scenario; what does a witchers interpretation of the "stronger" stream add to a situation where any properly constructed well would be completely successful.

Look at the "Geological Survey of Canada " exhaustive inventory of every known water well in Sask and Manitoba from the early 1930's. These comprehensively cover the whole of settled Sask and Western Manitoba (maybe Alberta too; but I've not had the need to research that). Time after time in bedrock formations the summary for each township and range states that "throughout the township; an abundant suppy of whatever quality water can be expected to be obtained from a certain depth range"
Now where only glacial deposits are obtained you are likely to read statements cuch as "intermittent supplies of hard water are/ are not likely to be obtained from pockets of sand or gravel within the glacil drift." Thats where chance comes in for anyone advising to go "wildcatting" or testhole drilling. The chances of success for a driller; or a wannabe dowser who has the ability to run an actual real machine capable of trying to complete a well....... are identical (given the assumption that both are equally capable.) But how could any self respecting dowser admit that what might be expected from conventionally accepted knowledge is vastly superior to "hockus pokus BS)" and it matters diddly squat whether you stray 2 inches; 2 feet or 200 feet from any spot any man or animal might pick out.

The reason some areas have many "dryholes" while others are more likely to be somewhat more dependable are of course usually dependent on local recharge and suscepability to drought. You almost always find some sand or gravel (maybe lots); and if the water table is above the bottom of the pocket; or hopefully a much larger deposit; then you could produce some fluids. It may be undrinkable or unfit for any use. It may be capable of 30 gallon per minute pumping for 30 minutes or 30 years and hardly decline at all; and those are the issues that are of a lot more importance than anyone who claims they can find water.

I'll argue and win every time; that 5 gallons per minute (or less) of soft water (which typically is iron free) is preferable every time for domestic use and even a hundred head of livestock); compared to the choiceof a larger quantity of hard water that stains everything it touches with iron deposits and the stuff that grows and eventually plugs up everything it ever comes into contact with. Does your trusted witcher discuss that with their clients; or are you just impressed with his supposed abilities to "get water".
Drought just happens to coincide when users have just lost their usual water source from a dropping water level. Just skip the step of letting dowswers additionally screw up your already desperate situation.

[ASRG]

Maybe you should start a campaign to burn all those water witches at the stake?

[blackjack]

Well I don't usually get involved in these discussions...Jim witched for us here in our area with great success.

[oneoff]

Don't think I'm suprised. There are no limits set to how far blind faith and personal opinions can stray from laws; proven facts and unproven beliefs and faith that have absolutely no shred of a scientific basis.

There is however no public interest served in propagating testimonials which have not been peer reviewed; nor scrutinized for gross errors that you may have overlooked.

And it will be strictly a coincidence when two (and highly improbable with any greater number) of the charlotons accidentaly come to the same conclusions as to the convergence of "underground streams" or whatever energies they might claim to be tapping into.

And shame on all the audience to be so easily sucked into this propaganda. Use your time to research the data and the free information and consulting services which will help you locate the water which you may need. eg. Water Securiy Agency in Sask; available e-logs; Geological Survey Township data; on-line driller reports etc

[grassfarmer]

Lots of talk of scientific proof oneoff but where is the
proof that these things don't work? You are BS'ing as
all "sound science" believers do. Bet your ancestors
were very sure of their science that proved the earth
was flat too.

[oneoff]

It's not comforting to have someone suggest burning people at a stake. People actually did that not so long ago. Pretty barbaric procedure;but it was wildly popular.
What would be completely appropriate would have been for the Sask Farm and Ranch Waterwell Assistance Program to have never paid one cent out for the services of "dowsers". Hopefully they didn't have to think about denying every last one of those potential claims.

Would you asses not have submitted such claims; considering how convinced you are of "dowsing's" worth andwonderful contribution to successful water well construction?
Give your body a good shake; because your head isn't working.
There is the strong possibility that some within that government branch may have exactly the same strong beliefs. Who knows; maybe even the provincial auditors have even stronger personal beliefs and faith in those practices. They certainly haven't speecifically spoken out......and it would be unaccepatable that this practice is not seen for what it truly is.
Give government officials and their staff the popular support and it will ensure that we degenerate down to basing further decisions on non-rational beliefs and faith.

[oneoff]

grassfarmer posted Apr 13, 2013 13:47
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lots of talk of scientific proof oneoff but where is the
proof that these things don't work? You are BS'ing as
all "sound science" believers do. Bet your ancestors
were very sure of their science that proved the earth
was flat too.
IP: Logged
Edit?

oneoff posted Apr 13, 2013 14:02
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I was hoping someone would "bite" and sure enough it is grassy. None of our ancestors had a very good opportunity for any grasp on science of their day; and compared today; the ordinary person did have a pretty good excuse for not being fully informed of things still not well understood.


I will point out that your ancestors are also my ancestors. That may well bother you a lot more than vice versa.




OK I'm all ears. Give me the explanation (I'll even listen to your full scientific proof) that "these things work".

Also wouldn't mind your version of how the world is now round; or even flat if you so believe. Throw in how BSE is all the fault of science; and that the earth is less than 6000 years old. I need big laughs not that faith and belief B.S. that only guys like you can understand.

I will be looking for consistency; so watch out to refrain from using any proofs derived from scientific approaches.

Shouldn't be difficult to be fully convincing.

Have at it, because I'm waiting.....and will still be waiting for the next eternity.

[ASRG]

oneoff: I don't know what your problem is? What do you care what we believe in? Have you ever heard the saying "live and let live"?
None of us are trying to tell you what to believe? None of us are preaching the "gospel and trying to tell you, you are an idiot"?
Let us ignorant peasants believe what we believe.....what's it to you? Are you a great reformer or something?

[oneoff]

Your trouble is that you have never listened or tried to comprehend the other side of any argument. And you won't provide the information needed to critique and analyse your side of the argument. You have no facts; and are too chickenshit to say what you really believe.
And if you keep your closely held opinions and beliefs to yourselves and still hold that there is no other side except your belief and personal blind faith then maybe that is your business.

But, when you start giving testimonials and put out claims which are not verifiable in any way; and attempt to pursuade people who have to make decisions such as who is/was the best witcher (or that dowsing is not the nonsense that it really is) then be prepared for some responses.

Those who suggest investigating and analysing reasonable factors before making any decision on how to best proceed are doing the public some service.

You've gone beyond minding your own business and are attempting to spread pure nonsense.

And be prepared for hearing the other sides that will point out (and hopefully expose) that raw stupidity about "dowsing"; palm reading; and connecting to various forms of energy.

There are so many wavelengths that you're loosing the battle trying to tune into any of them. At least get the right length of an aerial.

[ASRG]

Okay....You're right.....I'm wrong. Happy now?

[oneoff]

Without sarcasm, please tell me what I am right about and I will be more than happy.

I'll also tell you what I think you are right about.

Any personal beliefs and religious faith (or lack thereof) within any society must be tolerated by every person. With the many versions; held dearly by many different groups; who is to say which one is the most pure, or most holy or most contaminated with impurities. Live and let live I say; if you keep those as personal beliefs and opinions to yourself. Whatever makes your life easier; and doesn't infringe or hurt others...go for it.....I said it.

However; you reopen a public debate on "dowsing" for example; and make reference to how three "splendid flows" were obtained, ostensibly due to the sole efforts of some specially talented individual; and you deserve a rebuttal. Keep it personal and its only your business. Also don't be collecting a grant that comes from my pocket for the services of that "dowswer". You and that "dowser" establish that there is indeed some worthwhile verifiable public service; and I'll be the first to add my support to this being an eligible expense for the next water well grant program.

Until then "dowsing" deserves to remain in its category as a "personal belief".

If you have any complaints about errors in procedure of a lawfully organied trade group or individual business firm; or dispute the information required to be submitted by them; then feel free to register your complaint. I am sure that pointing out any errors in mapping; reports required to be submitted and faulty electronic apparatuses would be welcomed; and changed.

Crossing the line occurs when someone goes for advertising campaigns while refusing to engage in a full debate of those beliefs ,opinions and lack of facts.....

The dangers lies in the attempt to convert, confirm and commit new and old recruits to any one of the above, without opening yourself up to a full discussion and evaluation of your facts and principles. Because sure as heaven or hell or none of the above; some prophet(s) will be striving for a 100% success rate using every propaganda trick; irrational public opinion of the moment and pressure tactic at their disposal.


And thats why if anyone wants to expand their faith or beliefs beyond their own personal sphere; the audience should be given the opportunity to consider all the evidence to give them the full range of what choices that should be available for their free will consideration.

Now I'd like to know exactly what I'm right about.

[grassfarmer]

Not much, that's what you are right about.

[ASRG]

Give it up. I'm done with you.

[oneoff]

You're a liar and a fraud. It wouldn't matter if somethong was jet black to everyone else; you would still claim your right and faith to believe it otherwise.

And unfortunately the world is not done with the you and your ilk.