Bulls on self feeder or a TMR and raised properly!

[SCS]

In a quandary, we raise our bulls to last, others self fed on self feeder. No dirty bums here, weighing 1200 average at yearling weight, and have customers trading old bulls. Which would you like?

[15444]

I like the way you do it. Same way I do it. But I know bulls are harder to sell because of it.

[SCS]

But the question is, fat sells except in a stripper show, how do we change it?

[perfecho]

You can get just as much into them without a self feeder.... ;-)
Like to look at the whole picture...
20 lbs of barley and barley silage is different than creep feed oats and hay.
If your program works, they will come back.....

[grassfarmer]

Never understand why guys feed bulls to be significantly bigger than females at the same age. I'm guessing you don't feed your heifer calves to be 1200lbs at a year old - if not why do it to the bulls and claim they are fed to last?
Each to their own but find I that when we walk the talk on raising bulls slowly, at similar rates to our heifers, we have plenty customers that "get it".

[WiltonRanch]

Grass! Don't you know that fat baffles. Bull sales coupled with shows are about the worst. I'll take lloydminster bull sale as an example. Guys who come with Bulls in good shape get their bills sold while ones in their working clothes are lucky to sell. It is not right but it is expected every bull coming is at the best they can be. So a guy with lower conditioned Bulls appears inferior to the fat ones on the perception of buyers and judges. This mentality flows throughout the industry. I honestly think a lot of angus breeders cut their own throats by putting the coal to their Bulls and buggering their feet and livers and reproductive system. The continental breeds are maybe a bit more resilient but it's still not the best. I buy a few black angus from different outfits and simmentals as well. What gets me which I can't reason is my simmentals seem to outlast the angus because of bad feet, poor reproductive performance and broken *****. pisses me off when you buy a bull with what appears to be decent feet only to find out later he's got curly slipper toes and no heel. I like angus but I need to find a breeder in Saskatchewan who will restore my faith. I like my cows with mostly angus in them but I want them to last. None of that tight haired shallow body stuff.

[grassfarmer]

Why stick with Angus - it's only a name? If you want the maternal characteristics that Angus used to be known for and better foraging ability I'll sell you a bull that'll do the job. If you need blacks you are out of luck though - can only do them in red.

[Happytrails]

When I went black I never went back! Seriously, they seem to have a small edge in productivity in my operation. Why no blacks GF? Agree that overfeeding is bad.

[grassfarmer]

Nothing against cattle of any colour, just don't get blacks in my breed HT.

[WiltonRanch]

I generally prefer the black angus over the red angus. In my eyes the ra is an entirely different breed. Grass you raise Luing? I don't know much about them but they look hardy. I like ra cows but to find a bull that calves easy and throws decent length is hard. My father in law though has some pisscutter reds and he searches high and low for some really nice bulls. Some days I am tempted to try a red or two just to prove myself wrong.

A lot of black breeders get caught up chasing a handful of ai bulls. Fine enough if they're okay and many are but when it's learned three years on the feet go to hell or other problems then you have thousands of screwed up cows. As well these ai sires come from the same outfits. So really the whole breed dynamic is really influenced by a couple people. I've had some decent cows out of these genetics but also some disappointment with genetics that don't live up to their potential. Epds and fat have fooled a lot of us into paying good coin for average and inferior bulls. If I buy a bull from anyone now I go to the farm, look at his cows, see the sires, and have a discussion about their goals. I'm sick of bull sales, fat, bogus epds, and slick salesmanship.

[perfecho]

Cross those Angus with some Gelbvieh and watch those weaning weights rise....;-)
(yeah, ok...am a Gelbvieh breeder...)

[SCS]

We have 350 red and black Angus cows, 220 Purebreds, bulls raised in same pen and hfrs also, little difference in one over other, bulls now are on five pounds of grain and hfrs about one. The max our bulls get is one percent of body weight, hfrs may get three pounds and get gain on grass. Never get rich but can meet you on the street and ask how the bull is doing and never worry about liver or feet.

[WiltonRanch]

That's the way it should be. Good bulls sell themselves if you have a good rep. The shitty thing is you just about have to run the circuit and do what everyone else does to get known and it takes time. But when a guy gets a good name and customer base then he can get away from the madness. What kind of black sires are you using?