Fed Up with grain farming

[bski]

currently have small herd of beef cows.thinking of going all cow/calf.Turning most of land to hay and pasture except for small amounts of feed grain.High costs of inputs and costs of machinery for grain farming taking its toll on income.Anybody out there make such achange?Was it a rewarding change? Any regrets? I farm in the area around riding mountian park in manitoba TB Zone and it makes the decision harder Appreciate response Author FED UP

[crazeeakerz]

Several years ago we came to that same crossroad. We live in central Alberta, however I don't think that makes much difference. We decided to sell our grain farming equipment and concentrate on cow/calf and hay. The cost of getting what little grain we still had left custom swathed and combined was less than the depreciation of the swather and combine. We were also fortunate to get into good prices for calves. Looking back, I think it was the right decision for us. There was definitely more profit because there was less input costs. Good Luck.

[countryguy]

Bski my man,I am in the same boat as you are in,even live in the dang tb zone.I am currently in the middle of the process in which you are contemplating.

Being a young farmer I just don't see a future in the grain business.The margins are getting narrower and narrower and the risk is getting greater and greater.Big fancy machinery-been there done that and it just doesn't turn my crank anymore.I get MUCH more pleasure watching a calf do something silly and watching the cows DO ALL THE WORK!

I still plan on doing a little grain farming,mostly doing quick pasture rotations and experimenting with some organic production.At least that way if I have a crop failure I am not out hundreds of dollars of expenses.What I harvest will be ALL MINE!

Don't lose too much sleep over the whole tb issue.My gut feeling is that in three or so years time you won't hear too much about it.

I must admit it is hard to change the mindset,especially after a year like this with tremendous crops and prices but you have to stick with your long term goals or you'll never get off the treadmill.Good luck.

[danm]

If you are considering sowing grass down you might want to look at the new Ag policy Framework. There is a program in it that will pay for your grass seed & $25/arce over three years to keep it to grass The real sweet thing is you can graze it,cut it etc! It will probably be in 10 year contracts but no details yet. The program will probably be going through PFRA as well.This might be the nudge you need to switch?
I farm a mixed farm & sounds like you are just starting to go through the process of seeing what actually makes YOU the most money.This is a very good thing & will probably turn out for the best for all.
Good Luck

[dfarms11]

hey there, tell me more about this $25 per acre program. Is it available in alberta as well?

[bski]

Thanks to all who responded to my thread countryguy crazeeakerz danm.It is good to know that other producers have changed or are in the process so you don't feel like you are alone or doing something thats so radical.Countryguy I see your point calves playing in a pasture is less stressful than seeing a combine leaning to one side example flat tire.As far as tb issue goes I suppose will have to live with it.One thing that comes to mind is the head warden said on radio that nature will take control of diseased animals on its own.Well I went to a meeting about a year or so ago and a farmer asked the parks warden how did tb get into elk herd.The answer was it came from cows pasturing in park 40 or 50 years ago or so they think.Well if thats the case nature still hasn't got rid of it has it? Danm I was thinking of the new ag policy as well.Didn't think anything would be out on it yet.Will be looking into it.As far as the mindset thing it is hard after a year of finally good prices with good yields to get around the fact.But looking ahead at the futures and the pro's how they have come down on a crop thats not in the ground yet.As well as the huge potential of brazil, russia, ukraine and other former states of soviet union.I see them producing grain cheaper,they are closer to markets.Money will be spent by corporations to build infrasture and machinery plants over there.I quess moving from selling 5 or 6 commodities to just one will be an ajustment factor.I quess I'm getting a little carried away on here .Had to vent thanks again.

[danm]

dffarms11, the program as far as I know is a national program. It will depend how much your province wants to participate as well.
There is one fly in the ointment right now & that is the carbon cedits. Everyone thinks they own them so this is going to be a battle to watch & voice your opinion. The feds think they own them,the multinational want to deal with large volumes that the gov't would have access to. The land owners are not even at the table yet so beware & don't sign your credits away just yet.

[dfarms11]

sorry for sounding so uninformed but what are you talking about with carbon credits, is there a place I can find out more about this?

[smcgrath76]

Try here...
http://www.agr.gc.ca/puttingcanadafirst/

Not sure it is totally fleshed out, but it is straight from the horse's mouth so to speak.

[danm]

Here is something I came across that should answer alot of questions.
Greencover

Q.1What is the Greencover Canada Program?


A.Greencover Canada is a five-year, $110 million initiative designed to promote sustainable land use and to expand the land base covered by perennial forage and trees. Through its four program components, Greencover will deliver technical and financial assistance for land conversion incentives, improved grassland management practices, water quality protection, reduced greenhouse gas emissions, enhanced biodiversity and improved wildlife habitat.


Q.2How much land will be impacted by this program and where will this occur?

A.Approximately 1.6 M ha of land could be impacted by program activities that include technical and financial assistance on environmentally sensitive lands and critical areas.

Q.3 What will Greencover offer farmers?


A.Greencover will offer landowners a package of options through the four program components:


The Land Conversion component will provide farmers with financial incentives to convert environmentally sensitive cultivated land to perennial cover.
The Technical Assistance component will provide farmers with information about beneficial management practices applicable to rangeland, forage land, and riparian areas, to accelerate the adoption of these practices.
The Critical Areas component will provide financial incentives to help improve the health and function of riparian areas.
The Shelterbelt component will provide landowners with assistance to encourage the planting of trees on agricultural land.


Q.4What type of activities will be eligible under this program?
A.Eligible activities vary under the program components:
Land Conversion - conversion of environmentally sensitive crop lands that should be in perennial cover will be considered an eligible activity. These lands are generally best suited for perennial cover and are described as less productive for annual cropping and usually have low tax assessment values (AB assessment less than 44), or low crop insurance ratings (eg SK - M,O,P, MB - H,I,J).
Technical Assistance - implementation of land management BMP’s on rangeland, hayland, and riparian areas are eligible for technical support. The details surrounding the type of assistance has not been determined.
Critical Areas - eligible cost-shared BMPs between the producer and government that support activities in the riparian area are currently in the development stages.
Shelterbelt - establishment of shelterbelts will be promoted and the level of support will be determined for each province.

Q.5 What are the expected benefits from Greencover?

A.Greencover provides multiple environmental benefits, including; reduced soil erosion; enhanced wildlife habitat; improved biodiversity, riparian health and water quality; reduced energy consumption within farmyard site from shelterbelt protection., and a reduction in greenhouse gases (by capturing carbon in the soil).


Q.6When will the program be available?



A.The Greencover Program is currently being developed in consultation with the provinces, industry, non-government organizations and other partners. All components of the program will be available in 2003, with some components being made available sooner than others.


Q.7 When and how can farmers apply to the program?

A.Applications will be made available once the program is fully designed in consultation with provincial governments and industry groups. Consultations will establish priorities for Greencover’s components on a regional basis, how and what complementary programs will be offered, and how implementation will proceed. These consultations will be part of those conducted under the Agricultural Policy Framework. Full implementation of the Greencover initiative begins in 2003, and the program will run until 2008.


Q.8 Will all the components of Greencover be introduced at the same time?



A.Due to the diverse nature of the Greencover Program, some components will be available before others. All components will be designed to link with other environmental program initiatives, including Environmental Farm Plans and the National Water Supply Expansion Program.


Q.9When will the Land Conversion component be available?



A.The Greencover Program is being developed in consultation with partners, and is being designed to link with other environmental program initiatives. To ensure a successful program, careful planning is required, and this takes some time. Funding for Greencover will begin in 2003 and run until 2008, providing landowners with a number of seeding opportunities over the duration of the program. We anticipate that program brochures and application forms for the Land Conversion component will be available sometime in May 2003, and applicants will be able to apply to an application deadline date for 2003 spring and fall seeded forages. A program deadline date will be announced.


Q.10 How will 2003 spring seeded for ages be handled?



A.Program administration will not be in place for program approval prior to seeding of spring 2003 forages. However, producers should read the program brochure to determine the program criteria and if it is worthwhile for them to apply. All applications must meet the program criteria and will be screened and rated with other applications at a program deadline date.


Q.11What kind of funding support is available and how much for the landowner?

A.Incentive funding will be made on a per acre basis for conversion of eligible lands (i.e. environmentally sensitive crop land) to perennial cover. Minimum (40 acres) and maximum acreage (640 acres under establishment) levels will be set under the program. The levels of payment are yet to be determined, but will be made available in the program brochure. It is anticipated that a two payment process will be implemented. One payment will be a seeding payment and the other a contract payment once the perennial cover has been established. In addition technical assistance will be made available for these newly converted lands.


Q.12Will the Land Conversion component be carried out in conjunction with other conservation organizations?



A.Discussions with conservation organizations such as Ducks Unlimited Canada and the Prairie Habitat Joint Venture indicate many areas of shared interest. Consultations with these and other non-government groups are ongoing.


Q.13Can I renew my current Permanent Cover Program (PCP) contracts under this program?

A.No, land that received a land use agreement payment under PCP is not eligible for the Conversion Component, since these lands have already received a payment for conversion and should remain in perennial cover for the highest environmental benefit.


Q.14Will caveats be used to secure the landowner’s commitment to land use change?

A.No. Ten year land use agreements will be signed by the land owner to commit these lands to perennial cover over the life of the agreement. Lands will be monitored to ensure compliance under the program, and legal recourse will be taken if the agreement is breached.


Q.15Why is 10 years used for the duration of the land use agreement?

A.A 10 year commitment is an acceptable length of time to ensure significant environmental benefits are occurring from a land use change. Over this time land managers will be better able to incorporate these land use changes into farm operations.


Q.16Can trees be planted for their productive value, eg. pulp and paper, merchantable lumber under the Conversion Component?



A.Trees that are planted under this program cannot be considered for pulp and paper or merchantable lumber usage until after the ten year land use agreement period has reached full term.


Q.17 Will Greencover offer farmers any kind of economic opportunities?



A.Although Greencover is primarily an environmental initiative, the program offers a range of diversification opportunities. Under the land conversion component the land can be used for range and hayland uses over the 10 year agreement period.


Q.18 How will Greencover contribute to Canada’s climate change objectives?

A.Greencover will contribute to national climate change mitigation objectives, primarily through accelerated carbon sequestration by increasing the acreage of perennial grasses and trees on Canada’s agricultural land base. This will enhance Canada’s efforts to meet greenhouse gas (GHG) reduction objectives under the Kyoto Protocol.


Q.19Will this program help Canada with carbon sinks?

A.The Greencover program will add to the amount of land under trees and forage, which will increase the potential for carbon storage in the soil. The estimates of the amount of carbon stored will be based on internationally accepted methodology and guidelines.


Q.20Who owns the carbon sequestered by perennial vegetation? Can these credits be traded?



A.Policy options and rules concerning carbon credit trading are still being developed by the federal government through the Climate Change Action Plan for Canada. By accepting payments under the Greencover Program, you may be relinquishing potential trading of credits associated with a future carbon trading program.

Q.21What kind of tree research will be undertaken by Greencover?



A.The research undertaken by this program will be targeted at plant adaptability and the integration of trees into farm production systems.


Q.22What kind and what level of assistance is available for tree planting?



A.The level and type of assistance for tree planting is yet to be determined. It is anticipated that there will be regional variability.


Q.23Is this program compatible with other programs?



A.Greencover will make every attempt to be compatible with, and complementary to, other program initiatives which address the federal government’s environmental and economic agenda. Discussions are currently being undertaken with other agencies that offer similar programs or have programs that are compatible in order to avoid duplication. Greencover Canada programming will work in consort with the Environmental Farm Planning process.

[dfarms11]

when you say eligible land in Alberta is tax assessment at less than 44, that means under $44,000, correct?

[danm]

You might want to ask this question to the website that was given in an earlier message.This info was given in MB by a fed so they best know the answer. Or maybe try your provincial people they might know something by now.
Good Luck

[jmillang]

dfarms11 In the past when the Federal programs referenced an assesment rating it was a % (percentage) rating. Most municipal tax assesments have this rating on them as it is the basis or starting point for building tax assesments. This number is very similiar from what the old Permanent cover and PCP 2 program used several years ago, so if you did not qualify last time likely you won't this time either. good news is that maybe its a third time a charm