I still don't understand........

[15444]

I still don't understand you western farmers. I realize you love the land that you raised your family on and your great grandfather homesteaded...but come on! I don't know why you continue to try and farm in an area where conditions are not permittable for farming (ie AB and SK). You all should move to Northwestern Ontario. We here love to get droughts. Our hay crop across the region is down 30-40% but we aren't so short that we have to get rid of any cows. Producers around here probably won't hold on to all their calves this year, but we don't have to really worry about low prices. Our local feeder finance co-op buys about 70% of the calves in our annual calf sale. The co-op has an annual credit of over 1.5 million to work with, so paying an extra ten to 15 cents a pound really does'nt matter to it's members. Cattle works best in this region. Making grain is a little tougher cause of the occasional heavy rain. There is lots of farmers around that are in their late 70's-early 80's that probably wouldn't mind selling out.

[cowman]

A good portion of the drought area in Alberta has never experienced a drought like this. We are in the sure crop area(until this year!).
Most farmers out here are older(like everywhere else I'm sure) and we have few young farmers. Not so easy to start over somewhere else. Our families and friends are here. I suspect most would rather quit farming than leave. It sounds pretty good where you are and maybe some people should look into it, if they love their cows so much.

[farmerboy]

I doubt if any farmers could afford to move anywhere, let alone to Northwestern Ontario

[dfarms11]

Also keep this in mind, up until this year, I never, never ever expected to not be able to produce enough feed for my cows. Even on the driest year, I could have produced enough feed off all my land to feed 100 cows, thats over 3000 acres. You are telling me that if you only had 3 tenths of rain in a year and maybe 3 inchs of snow through the winter, coming off a fall with absolutly no soil moisture, you would be able to survive??? You try it for a year and tell me how things are for you.

[corine]

My Dad once spend some wasted time talking to a farmer when he was in Ontario. The guy just would not believe that 80 bushel barley crops are pretty common in Central Alberta, no matter what Dad said. Accused him of lying.
It has not ever been this dry here, usually we get almost too much moisture.
At least we have no rats or Liberals.

[oldboy]

If it's so great in Ontario, why is half of your young population out here working in the oil patch? Couldn't afford to farm I guess!

[rookie]

I spent two weeks in southern Ontario this month. The inlaws asked those same questions about why not just move if things were so crappy. The debates and discussions went on and on and to be perfectly honest, I didn't feel like they ever understood why people live out here. I do understand why they live there. great climate was one big point. But please excuse me if I offend anyone, but I also felt like I was speaking to some of my American friends at the time. We all should know what that means. Now I can't say everyone is like that, but I was very frustrated at what I observed, and was happy as hell to be back home. I will return and hopefully we will all become a little more familiar with each others homes. That is what I feel this country needs a little more of, understanding. But we all have to truely want to understand, and we should all know what thats means too. have a good day all ...

[dbluck]

You describe Ontario much the same way I would have described my area up to two years ago.

[cowman]

It is one strange situation out here. Practically every day it clouds up but it just won't rain. Then the wind picks up and away go the clouds and it gets very hot. It was basically the same last year just not as bad. Maybe we're in a weather pattern like the thirties only a little worse. It's been slowly getting drier out here over the last ten years. Every year the drought area crept a little closer and our soil reserves got a little less. Spring this year was wet and cold and it truly looked like it was turning around. I don't think anyone saw this coming.
It is with a growing disgust that we see our federal government continuing to ignore the disaster out here, and that is the only way to discribe this situation. Not the good people of Ontario but the federal Liberal government. Our provincial governments have stepped up to the plate and our municipalities are doing all they can, while the Liberals in Ottawa continue to contemplate their navels.
Alberta sends $7 billion dollars a year to the feds in transfer payments and the majority of our taxes(income tax, gasoline tax, tobbacco and booze, Gst) goes to Ottawa. What do they actually do for us? I would suggest we'd be better off keeping our money at home, in the west, if they won't even try to help us out when we are in trouble! They did the same thing in the thirties. Which spawned two new political movements that were basically separatist until they got corrupted.
So perhaps some people will wake up and realize it is time to go, and that I believe is a good thing?

[pandiana]

cowman, do you really think that $55.00 per Alberta farm is 'all that they can do'. If so, as far as I can see they might as well keep it as it is like a drop in a lake for most of us in the hard hit areas, expecially for those of us with small land base:cattle ratio. I would think that administering the applications, mailing, spin doctoring and hiring the pyscologist to councel the stressed would already take up a large chunk of this money.

[rodbradshaw]

15444
You don't live in isolation. If Calves in alberta are bringing 50-60 dollars for 300 pounders your calves will not bring the high prices that you are use to. Unless your marketing to the end consumer your prices will be effected the same as ours.

[cowman]

Pandianna: I don't know if the $55/farm you are referring to is the federal package or the Alberta package. Consider the per acreage payout of $4 on native grass(Alberta). Now if I live out in the east country I might own vast tracts of land or lease it. So if I have a pasture of say 10,000 acres and I have virtually no cattle then I still get a check for $40,000. I might not even own this land but have a government lease. Not a bad deal? And guess who lives out there? Our Agriculture minister! So she's taking care of the home team for sure. The grain deal is about the same.$7 for land whether it usually grows 100 bu. or 20 bu. Or land that is worth $2000/acre or $100/acre.
I would have rather seen a program to get these cows dead. Say a top up for every cow killed. We aren't going to spend our way out of this situation...we need to kill mega number of cows! And hopefully this will free up enough feed to feed the rest and let others out with at least the shirt on their back. I guess we all know we were maxxed out on cows long before this drought came along.
When they killed the Crow they basically lured a lot of people into cows. This was not a good thing. All that changed was we had to export beef instead of barley. When the big drought came along both crashed but at least you don't have to feed an empty grain bin!

[15444]

Well now! I seem to have a real debate on my hands! For the number of you who I guess don't know Ontario, I DON'T LIVE NEAR TORONTO, AND I'M DAMN GLAD I DON'T! I live in NORTHwestern Ontario. Right beside the Manitoba, Ontario, Minnesota Border. Please, for the sake of god, don't associate me with the dumb-assed bastards that live down in the south. We are not Liberal lovers either. The rural population voted all in favour of the Alliance in the last election. It was the damn townies and indians that voted for Bob Nault (that idiot of Indian Affairs)....don't blame the Rainy River District farmers for putting that nutcase in Parliment. We here where I live are all for the Western farmer. We feel more a part of Manitoba than Ontario. We just figure that why don't you guys go to where the rain and sun are in equal balance...like where we live. Rather than crying for aid payments that will never mean anything anyways. Also, why don't some of you guys with the 500 grand dollar machinery start selling it? might get a little money for it. We around here can run 30 year old pieces of junk on 250 acres of hayland, why can't you?

[cowman]

15444: A farmer is a farmer whether in Alberta, Ontario, or Quebec! We all face the same problems weather, the cost/ price squeeze, other various problems. This year we got hammered with this horrible drought. For most of us this is a confusing time because we've never seen it like this. It is NOT the norm! For example we've never not had a crop. Never been completely hailed out, froze out, or dried out. Barley consistently runs in the 80-100 bu./acre. Thick black loam soil.
This is only one year...last year was dry but our barley still went 90 bu./acre.
Now maybe this dry spell is here to stay...we just don't know. Our provincial government is trying to help us but the feds are pretty much a joke. Our provincial government can help us because they have the petro bucks, no other reason! Consider that if we kept our $7 billion in transfer payments at home this year we might just be able to feed our cows cake!
This is not belittling the response from our farming brothers in Ont. and Quebec! We are truly grateful for your efforts to help. I don't think our alienation from the east ever was directed towards the rural areas.
The $500,000 machinery is up for sale! Lots of big green combines sitting by the road with "For Sale" signs on them. Don't think there are many buyers though...don't need a combine to harvest the hoppers and thistles!

[rodbradshaw]

Cowman
The Government had no fast way to do it any other way than a straight acreage payment or worry about the Americans slapping duties and tarriffs on everything (softwood lumber)because you would be targeting a specific commodity. It is by no means perfect but it will get some cash out into the rural areas and maybe keep the Castors, Coronations, Provosts of Alberta from drying up and becoming ghost towns.
I agree with you that it doesn't make much sense to pay the same for an acre at Hanna as in the Highway 2 corridor or the irrigation districts but that's what they have done.