Here's one to ponder

[cakadu]

Grassfarmer, sadly that is the way it usually is. Many adopt a "wait and see" attitude, even though it may very well be in their best interests to become involved at the early stages. I'm not sure how to appeal to people on an individual basis so that they can see "what's in it for me" and commit some resources - whether it be time, money or some sort of expertise. Everyone has their own reasons for getting involved in something and finding a balance to meet all those needs is often quite difficult.

Treating employees well - and it often doesn't mean well paid - so that they feel that they are a part of something is critical for high morale and low turnover. Working in a meat plant is likely not easy - particularly on the kill floor. Cutting and wrapping may be somewhat easier, although I couldn't really say because I haven't done anything like that (with the exception of wrapping wild meat and/or doing chickens at home).

Many of the processing industries have great difficulty in finding workers here in Alberta because we have the oil patch, which pays great wages for any level of education. How does a meat plant or a potato chip factory compete for labor when the oil and gas industry pays very well for even someone coming out of high school?

Attracting human resources to any part of agri-business is a challenge.

[rusty1]

grassfarmer said - "isn't it a fair gamble to send them to these guys that are trying hard to get a plant up and running?" I want to encourage you with a change of mind set. These plants if properly planned and focuses should become something were we can say "I sent them old cow to OUR PLANT!. These innitiatives are the opportunity for us to become "Price Makers" instead of ......... what we've been for far to long.
There is oportunity for us to put alot back into our industry is we all put our shoulders to the right plow.

Can you tell me what the capital cost of their plant will be on a per head basis. That's crritical. Divide the capital cost by the number of head per year.

Our plant will be around $200 per head maybe less.

[grassfarmer]

If I remember correctly they talked of needing $15 million to build a plant with 45,000 head annual minimum capacity - about $333 capital cost per head. Unfortunately all these numbers and schemes are academic unless producers and investors get behind them.
Rusty1, with your plan I note you talk of killing UTMs as well as OTMs - how likely do you think it will be that you can kill both in the one plant within say the next 5 years?

[rusty1]

Do you know how many dollars they expect to be able to net per head?

[cakadu]

What sort of mechanisms will have to be put in place in order to avoid seeing what we are seeing now in terms of "price fixing"? In other words, how do you see these plants not doing what the current plants are doing in terms of getting their inputs for the lowest possible price that they can? After all, business is business and even producers who put money into a plant will want to see some sort of return beyond being able to kill so many head per year.

The opposite of that is also going to be true. For example if a producer has the right to kill 50 fats a year and the plant is counting on having those animals to fill the markets that they find, what are you going to do to ensure that you continue to get those animals? After all, business is business and if the producer can get more money for those 50 fats elsewhere, how are you going to convince them to stay?

What is being done to ensure that loyalty works both ways?

[pmckenna]

In response to your last message, Cakadu, I think that although price will govern, that still can foster favourite suppliers - genetic thru retail. Many people do not trust the RFID program - but to build trust is to have data - and this system is impartial, with the exception of some errors that apparently included a double billing, or other unfortunates like that. But by and large, producers will come to demand from feedlots and packers, a reportability for sales at retail. Grading, yield, which brand it was is part of a dynamic, well run industry showing the world its best. Feedlots and packers, and retailers will want or need to engage. Sorry to repeat the same statement, but the lack of these programs held the industry back for too long.

[pmckenna]

What if co-operation (independent value chains) means prices are about the same from one to the next? They're costs may be similar. Will we say it is price-fixing? Because those prices may be in the nature of honest competition. Any comments from anybody?

[rusty1]

cakadau - are you a govt. employee?

[rusty1]

Rusty, where is your plant going to be built ?

[cakadu]

Ahhh, rusty you make me smile. No, I am not a government employee. What I am is someone who has been around for a while and witnessed the proposals for other processing plants in the diversified livestock sector. As many know, we raise lamb, so are even more limited in processors than you are in beef. Believe you me, I have asked these questions all along and even learned a few more to ask along the way.

It's not that I don't believe in the ideas, in fact, I've been promoting a lot of these various ideas for a long time. My strongest desire is to see them succeed and be sustainable.

[cowman]

I've asked this question before, but I've never gotten an answer.
How come these various plants are going to cost $200, or $333, or whatever, while the plant in PEI costs $60? How come we can't do it for that?
I will also note no ground has been turned here while the PEI plant comes on line this September? What are they doing that is obviously working?
I wonder how many producers would be more than happy to buy that "hook space" at the PEI prices? $20 down and a forgivable loan? I suspect you couldn't keep them from beating down the door?
If PEI can swing this(with absolutely no federal money) then what is the problem here?

[cowman]

Ponder this.

The plant to kill cows proposed by BIG C is propsed to be built with bridge financing from the federal government. Producers will become shareholders in lew of the levy suggested over time. This plant will be built as cost efficiently as possible and will be run by the best management that can be serched out. Of course these two points can and will be argued, but let's be realistic. Every business venture will and has made those same two points over history.

Once this plant is built, some sort of reality is put back into a marketplace that has become extremely disfunctional. IF IF this plant cannot make money. We have all lost some checkoff money while trying to solve a crisis. (Sound familiar). Only difference being. Even if another private company buys this infrustructure for 20 cents on the dollar, we have solved one major part of our problem, Packing Plant Capacity.

As our Ex Premier Peter Lougheed said yesterday,"We could work out the details while the bricks are being laid".

Sure planning is important, but every now and again "action without fear" also works.