Here's for all you irresponsible cowbows

[wd40]

correct me if I'm wrong - ConAgra is Swift. Their very large feedlots in Colorado and Kansas just got bought out in a hostile take over by Smithfield (Packerland) who is playing hi-stake poker to shut out Swift out of the market. It's working. The Swift plant in Greely just announced that they were shutting down their plant in Greely because the feedlots that they where rellying on to supply they with cattle now won't ship to them. (sleepen at the switch).
Smithfields goal is to gain enough presence in the Contiental North West (Canada) to further draw the string around the throats of the IBP plants in Washington and Idaho.

[rusty1]

Way to go WD40-
There is one very good reaon for us as producers for taking back control of our industry (which we can) is it pays more. Argiculture across the continent from lettuce to fish are making it happen. (BUT I WANT TO BE A COWBOY AND CHEW TABACCO)
If you examine the US scenario - there are a multitude of small 750 to 2000 hd per day packers springing up focused on producer supply chains and nich marketing.
The big packers can't go there. Their so big they don't even see the opportunity, all they see is Walmart.
I stuck significant time and energy into a initiative and we are totally confident that we could survive.
If we can get the right cattle we have the market prepaired.
The 2 giants here only want to focus on their export to US or abroad, so they have really ticked off the domestic markets.

[cowman]

It is a good thing that some individual wants to set up a plant in Lethbridge, whether he is Canadian or American or whatever. Obviously he has probably done his homework if he is investing his own money? Probably he is already involved in the meat business? I can only applaud his initiative and the city of Lethbridge for doing all it can to assist this private enterprize.
One of our local small abbatoires is looking at building another plant. This guy has his feet on the ground and knows what he is doing. He is going into this venture with both eyes open and not on a whim. He will add some capacity to the system and be viable whether the border opens or not...and yes he probably will make quite a bit of money!
I do believe this is the type of operation we should be supporting? One that is built on the concept of free enterprize and profit instead of one that milks the taxpayer?

[cowman]

Again, cowman your wisdom shines through ! I am sure that the city of Lethbridge realizes the opportunity for spin offs to their economy if the plant goes ahead.

[farmers_son]

As there is government money available for anyone starting a new packing plant, I would imagine the entrepreneur in Lethbridge is milking the taxpayer too.

Having given the matter some thought I do not believe more packer capacity is the answer at all. More packer capacity is needed, that is for sure, but it is not the answer. What the producers needed throughout this crisis and in the years to come is an alternative market for their cattle. That alternative market is not the live cattle market with just another packer to phone. Cargill and Tyson will continue to be the price leaders in the Alberta live cattle market no matter how many new packing plants are constructed and no matter who is the company behind them, small player or Swifts or some other major player.

What producers need is an alternative to the live cattle market and that alternative is the wholesale beef market, boxed and value added. That is how we add competition to our industry by creating the option of selling into a different market, not by simply having more places to sell into a live market. That is the purpose of producers building their own packing plant, to create the opportunity to sell their product based on the more stable and market driven wholesale price of beef, allowing them to capture the real value of their product while adding value at the same time.

Grassfarmer’s visit to the Legislature highlighted for us a grim reality in the beef business. Even government is powerless to do anything to fix the live cattle market. Limit the major packers ownership of live cattle to 10%? Can’t do it. Why can’t the government do it, because the packers have such control that all they have to do is reduce the kill for a couple of weeks and lower the price of fats and the feedlots are on their knees and the government will have to come out with another ad hoc program. We have to realize the live price of cattle in this country and I suggest the U.S. as well will continue to be manipulated and fixed by Tyson and Cargill and the price leaders in the live cattle market. The answer is to create an alternative market for cattle, the wholesale boxed beef market, not to try to try and somehow fix the live cattle market. It is beyond repair.

Can we do it? We have to do it. We really do not have a choice. Even if the border were to open we all have seen that it can close again. Is it going to be easy? No, but necessity is the mother of invention and producers are a resourceful lot. Wishing and hoping that the live cattle market is going to give us a fair return and reflect the actual value of our beef product if we only have more places to offer us a live fat price is unrealistic. We need a market outlet that lets us participate in the boxed beef, value added market, and that place is a producer owned packing plant.

We need an alternative market for our production so we can finally get a fair return.

[gwf]

Farmers_Son: Your assessment of what has to be done is very much in line with the proposal that has been promoted by the Beef Initiative Group. I firmly believe that this approach is the only one that will have any meaningful change to the stability of the Livestock Industry, but I will be very surprised if it ever becomes a reality in Alberta. Saskatchewan and Manitoba producers are more likely to accept the concept. If we continue to rely on governments to provide solutions, I think we will be waiting a long time. The Alberta government through their “Industry”, the ABP, sees the solution as the planned increase through expansion of slaughter capacity by the US based (foreign owned plants). If producers see this as the salvation, then we just have to wait, and our problems will be solved. On the other hand, if we do nothing, we will just have more of what we have had on the past, subject to the border staying open at prices set in the US, and no hope of capitalizing on the opportunities that may exist in other markets.

I heard recently that there are over a thousand slaughter proposals on the table across the nation. If they are all dependent on governments to some degree the government has a very difficult task in deciding which ones are viable and which ones to support. It may be fair to say that 99% of them are not feasible and will not survive. So the next time we say that the government is not doing enough, think seriously, what you think they can or should do? Should governments provide financial support to all proposals?

[gwf]

my understanding is that there are in excess of 250 proposals for plants in Alberta alone.

[cakadu]

GWF, the absolute last thing we need is the government trying to pick yet another "winner".

I couldn't agree more with the assessment that we need alternative markets and I do believe that BIG C, rp, and rusty among others have mentioned on numerous occasions that this is what they are trying to accomplish.

We cannot and should not be continuing to rely on a market that takes 80% of our product, no matter what that might be. The way we have done things in the past has not really worked for us, so the time is right to change.

For a very long time now some folks have been referring to farming as a business and that being the case, the business has to do what it can to stay viable; in other words, change.

Are we ready to do as WD suggests and move out of the box?

[kpb]

wd, believe me I didn't create my operation by wallowing but, rather, by being realistic. And I've yet to hear just what your great idea is to take back control of our industry. If you're just proposing yet another of the 250 or so plants on the drawing boards for Alberta, than you're just a dreamer along with all these other guys who can't raise money for their dreams.
The only way to gain control of the industry is through government intervention--they're the only ones big enough to take on the multi's and make a meaningful change. That's what they've finally realized in the U.S. and that's what we need to see here too.
I still haven't heard why anyone thinks why any local plants that eventually do get going will be able to compete with the mutli's except for niche markets. Is that what we're aiming for--little niche markets in our own country and leave the big stuff to the big boys? WD, unless you've got some realistic business proposals instead of wool-gathering about "ending empires" and "fighting with my last breath" I suggest YOU shut up.

[grassfarmer]

Do I smell another corporate conspiricy? According to wd40 ConAgra sold out to Smithfield who are fighting with Swifts to gain the upper hand in the US. Which one of these was ivbinconned hinting were going to build a plant in Southern Alberta? I note that Doug Horner's credentials include a 3 year period working for ConAgra in Nebraska ... do you think he hates Transnational Corporations control over the beef market?
As far as the slaughter plant debate goes, there is lots of talk about an issue that is really two issues. The slaughter and processing of young cattle and the slaughter and processing of OTM cattle. Once a country has the stigma of BSE these cattle will have to be killed in seperate plants for a period of 10 years I would think. Personally I think the battle to build plants for young cattle is largely over - a few smaller plants will enter the scene catering to specific markets - higher quality, hormone free etc. I will continue to fight for political action on packer control of cattle but the border will open to these cattle before the new plants are up and running. OTM cattle are a different issue and I think that should be our priority, these cattle will not go to the US live or in box form for several years so we do have time to get plants built that will capture the returns for cows and keep them in Canada. I think there is room for both large and small plants in this field - I would like to see BIG-C get their plant built but this levy issue is a stumbling block unless we can convince ABP and Government that this is what the producers want - the Alberta Beef magazine reader survey showed that 97.33% of respondents backed a levy funded, producer owned plant. The future is in our hands on this one, we need to get producers to awake from their slumbers, their butts in gear and make enough noise that we get this plant built. Will it happen or will they all sit around and bitch about being hard up for another year?

[grassfarmer]

excellent comments grassfarmer. I do think that some producers that would like to become involved as shareholders just don't have the cash to do so, however, my neighbour who is continually crying about the lack of money, and wants to start subdividing off parts of the farm to generate cash but are leaving in two weeks for an Arizona vacation. SO. I guess as usual it is priorities isn't it ??

[ivbinconned]

I would never fault any man or neighbor for taking a holiday!!

And I would never fault any "David" for his willingness to take on "Goliath"

I will always applaud any mans efforts no matter how large the challenge.

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“All experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which the are accustomed”
Thomas Jefferson