Solution to America's M-COOL Problem

[SASH]

The problem with that kind of supply management would be that it would take years to cut back our production to a level where we would only be supplying Canada. I'm more of a believer in trying to balance supply and demand on a week to week basis on a larger scale. I'm sure that if we could pick up the money as producers that the Packers are making righjt now, we could still keep our prices on a level to be competitive in our exports. What I am proposing is that we tweak the industry as producers. We need to incorporate some of the methods that big business uses like Just In Time processing where your goal would be to have approximately the same inventory in feedlots at all times with approximately the same finish ratios all the time so you are delivering approximately the same number of cattle for slaughter every week. From what I can see now, most people deliver their feeders to the auction in the last three months of the year. We need to start right from calving dates and move through the system as consistently as possible. This means we won't have finished animals sitting in the feedlot on maintenance rations waiting for kill space. As soon as they are ready to go, they are out of there. Of course it wouldn't be perfect but it would help and the more efiicient we can make the process, the more money in our pockets because it lowers expenses for everyone. The goal should be to produce the highest quality, most consistent product we can for the consumer and establish Canadian beef as the best beef in the world, bar none.

[kpb]

rkaiser, i'm still not sure why it is you can market your beef for the best price going but have all sorts of nasty words for the packers when they try to make the top buck. And I also think we should be careful about tossing words around like unethical and pirates when the people involved in these packing industries have not been convicted of any crimes that i'm aware of.
as far as talking out of both sides of my mouth is concerned i would say that YOU cannot have it both ways. If you really want our industry to be producer-owned, vertically integrated right down through the packing industry then you need to have a marketing board made up of producers. Or, if you want a free enterprise system then you cannot slam the packers for making as much money as they can. Either way is fine with me--I'll survive anyways. But what you can't do is mix the two so that you have a so-called free enterprise systems with controls on what the packers can own or buy or how much money they can make. Or that periodically gives producers welfare cheques. I think that that system is, in itself fundamentally unfair and open to abuses beyond what we've seen. Because what it means is that people can make money but just not too much. And that is simply wrong. You've got to decide--if you want free enterprise then you've got to let everyone, not just yourself, succeed. If you want a marketing board then I guess you've got to put up with left wingers. You just can't have it both ways or nobody will know just what is allowed.
And I will say it again, it would be a whole lot cheaper for the government to cull the old cows, give everyone a cheque, then go to a marketing board system so that everyone can begin to make a decent dollar with a secure future. You may not like it but it would end all these welfare cheques every six months or so, would mean that we can pass the farms down to our kids with secure futures, would give the Canadian consumer confidence in our industry (secure future supply) and would give the producers control of the industry all the way to the meat counter.

[kpb]

rkaiser, you say that our ag industry is too dependent on all sectors working together to make a backwards move like that in regards to my proposal to have a marketing board just serve the domestic market. But surely we have learned in the last two years just how dependent we are on foreign markets and surely that dependence is something we should try to avoid. As long as our industry is beholden to foreign governments and foreign multis we will always be at their beck and call and their local politics. As long as we continue to run after the foreign, export market our industry cannot have a secure future and we will not be able to, as a group, make a decent long-term living. Furthermore, as long as we pursue these foreign markets you will find our cattle industry to be more and more concentrated in fewer and fewer Canadian hands.
The only way to save the small to medium cattle producer is to have a marketing board made up of producers that serves the Canadian market.
One more thing--what has all this increasing of exports in the last 10 years done for the individual producer?

[blackjack]

... interesting posts... always thought the supply management of the dairy industry would have been good for Canadian agriculture... don't remember much of him but was Eugene Whalen not for supply management back in the seventies... seems to me the beef guys didn't want then... now with all the rules of NAFTA and the WTO ... seems to me even the rancher wanted a marketing board it might not be possible... on another note I do remember back when those against the NAFTA agreement were basically laughed in our faces by our cattle associations...

[rkaiser]

Well kbp you can rant all you want but you'r not going to convince me that control by way of a marketing board is the way to go; especially if you throw in the scaling down of the Canadian herd.

I won't go on and tell my side again since you already know what it is.

I apologize for talking about packer ownership in the same post as market integration. Obviously the two are about different things.

If we were to remain in the same situation we are in, packer ownership would be not only a consideration, but a neccesity.

If we can get these producer owned packing facilities up and running, you're right packer ownership takes on a new meaning.

I am glad you are proud of your point of view kbp, but like I said, don't expect me to eat it up.

The business practices of the mutinational packers these past few years have been UNETHICAL, BLOODTHIRSTY, AND LIKE THAT OF PIRATES.

Now tell me I can not say that again.

[kpb]

rkaiser, if there's any ranting going on here i think it's pretty obvious where it's coming from. why is it when anyone presents any discussions that disagree with you they are ranting but when you call names while presenting basically no discussion points you feel you're being reasonable?

[rkaiser]

Keep fighting kpb, not sure what you want but keep fighting.

I apologize for calling your lenghty explaination of why I am wrong and you are right, a rant.

[rkaiser]

If it would make you happy kbp, I do rant. When it comes to the BS that has been laid on us by the packers over the past 2 years I rant. I rant rant rant. There was lots of opportunity for these PIRATES to choose a different route, but they did nothing but take advantage of a situation that was "YES" handed to them.

You're right kbp, I rant. But don't tell me that I have ever called what I say reasonable while what you say is only ranting okay.

I don't agree with your ideas on downsizing the Canadian cowherd, and I cannot see any benefit in supply management as you have explained it.

Now go ahead and twist these words and make yourself feel like you won something, I'm going to bed.

[cowman]

Randy: I was not implying that you or Cam or Grant would be involved in screwing anyone! But any sort of organization has a way of evolving that usually leaves the founders of that organization by the wayside, eventually? By your very nature of being producers it is unlikely that you would become fulltime packers!
And having said that I have some slight misgivings about BIG C's plans does not mean that I don't believe they have the right idea...because I do.
The idea of a producer owned plant where everyone has a share, according to his degree of involvement, is the best idea I've heard so far! I do believe the whole concept has been thought out fairly well and also believe it will benifit all cattlemen in Canada, whether they get their cattle killed at BIG C or Cargill/IBP, for the simple reason it will bring some accountability back into the market.
Supply management, or a marketing board or whatever cannot work in todays world. It is a nice idea though! NAFTA would not allow it to happen...plain and simple. And make no mistake about this...despite the silly things we see happening with American protectionism, NAFTA is the best thing that ever happened to us who live in the west!
Our western economy relies on our ability to trade with the US and is a good part of why Alberta is so prosperous today...I don't think anyone can argue with that?
The beef industry rejected supply management when Whalen offered it back in the late sixties. Perhaps we made a mistake, but I clearly remember when that debate was going on, and I will also admit I was dead against supply management(I doubt you could find anyone in Alberta who was for it at the time)! The idea that the government was going to control how many cattle you could own just didn't sit very well with the Alberta cattleman!
We talk a lot about left and right politics on this site and call each other hypocrits and other nice names, but we should always remember that it is the government that made the decisions that got us here! Trade and food safety are their responsibilities! They made the rules that got us into this mess...and they were paid very well for taking that job on? So I have no problem whatsoever taking the pittance they throw to me for their mistakes!
Personally I don't like the government, whether it be federal or provincial! I believe they throw up a lot of silly roadblocks to commerce and trade that are very costly and uneccessary. Both governments have become an out of control monster that consumes way too much of the countries resources, in my opinion! What is really sad is that a Ralph Klein is unfortunately about the best we can hope for? I shudder to think what might happen if we ever get a Liberal or NDP government in Alberta!

[SASH]

Some interesting comments.
cowman:
I disagree about a marketing board not working with NAFTA. The CWB is a marketing board and it has survived how many challenges from the US through NAFTA.
rkaiser:
You can't blame a pig for being a pig. Its the same with business. Its their job to maximize profits for their investors and that's exactly what the packers are doing. In the last few years it seems that there has become a distinction between traditional farmers and a group I'll call Agribusinessmen. The farmers are doing what they have always done (raising crops, cattle, whatever) and shipping them to the market for the price offered. The Agribusinessmen are the guys who are out there doing all that stuff and also looking for opportunities to maximize their profits and pare down their expenses. Those who are in the Ag business because they like the lifestyle seem to be falling by the wayside in record numbers while the guys that are focused on their vision and are looking for opportunities seem to be doing okay. It seems to me this is an evolution of sorts so you've either got to evolve or become extinct. The idea of supply management is tempting. There are several dairy farmers right close to me and they seem to always have money, new equipment, nice trucks. Comparatively, my father is a grain farmer with probably about the same money invested and he clears @ 5% on his investment in a good year. I can do better than that on the stock market in the long term with way less risk. So really what's the purpose of putting in all the extra work? Better to invest his money and sit back and retire.

[cowman]

I believe that the supply managed commodities, that were there before NAFTA, were given an exemption that would not be available for beef or other such commodities? As for the CWB, I do believe the Americans have been hammering away to get rid of it? Saying it violates the principles of NAFTA?
Alberta has been making lots of noise about scrapping the CWB and I suspect eventually they might succeed? I doubt the Klein government would ever allow a Beef marketing board?