Border Reopening "if's, and's & but's

[farmers_son]

Willowcreek: I hear you but I would point out that the rest of world considers there to be a North American beef industry especially when it comes to BSE. Last time I checked no one was allowing significant imports of U.S. beef other than Mexico and Canada. Japan, Korea and others consider it a North American market and I think they are right to question why they should import U.S. beef while at the same time the U.S. is raising flags about the safety of the Canadian product. As has been said many times, it is the pot calling the kettle black or calling your twin sister ugly. Canada and the U.S. have had a single market for as long as I can remember.

Obviously U.S. producers are viewing their industry differently than the rest of the world or they would not be approving policies like they have.

[farmers_son]

Further...Willowcreek you said "They do not want any world group telling them that the US and Canada are one- because they aren't." The International Review Committee said in the clearest possible terms that Canada and the US are one. That is fact.

[intr3est]

OT/Willowcreek.
"People in the USA are not followers of any world group- we don't see ourselves as being a one world nation, like the Europeans do."

then why do the Americans continue to sign agreements that make them members of a world groups? Do they sign them in bad faith, knowing that they will not honor them at a later date?

[Willowcreek]

intr3est--Interesting point.. I think if NAFTA, CAFTA, AFTA and most others ever came to a vote of the people they would not pass- definitely are not approved of by the Agriculture section as they get the bad end of the stick in favor of big business and manufacturing... But several years ago congress gave up our right to approve these by giving fast track approval priveleges to the President, which left even Congress little oversight..The corporate world loves the trade agreements and their ability to get cheap overseas labor and huge overseas tax breaks, but many of the working class feel dumped on by them...

[cakadu]

Farmers_son - saying "we are one" doesn't mean that everyone buys into that and clearly those south of the border (outside of the review panel) don't.

I wonder what makes Canada so quick to jump on "the rules" when others clearly don't follow them. Think back to the GATT/WTO talks and it was stated that subsides to farmers should be dropped. What did Canada do - come home and immediately take steps to do away with them. What did the US do - go home and add billions and billions more under the farm bill.

You are too right when you state that this is just part of a bigger picture and the true cost cards of getting this border open have not yet been shown to us.

I do want to see the border open, but I wonder just what the actual price is that we are going to have to pay and more importantly, will it be worth it in the long run?

[blackjack]

...willowcreek you don't ever give the whole story...your probably right about the corps...but governments look at the corps to hire the working class...I think your smart enough understand that...

P.S. ...willowcreek what ranchers in the world get more income than the americans...

[cowman]

Willowcreek: I find it sort of sad that the American cattleman considers it "THE US BEEF INDUSTRY" instead of the way it was before. My grandfather sold a ton of bulls to Americans and I used to use all kinds of semen from ABS. Just about all the cattle that came into Alberta originally came out of the States...and a lot of the cowmen. When I was a small boy there was a really old fellow who used to hang around my grandfathers place who came up with a herd from Colorado as a young man. His name was Doc Pruitt and they lost the herd in the big die of 1907!
Do you honestly believe we can take close to 100 years of history together and throw in in the trash can?... over four cows?
I'm not sure where you live? But whether it's Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado or whatever...you sure as hell ain't no different than any cowman here in Alberta, Saskatchewan, or Manitoba!
We all have the same concerns for our animals. You are us, and we are you? Don't give us this crap about an "AMERICAN" industry.

[farmers_son]

I should add I believe Willowcreek is accurately reflecting the views of the majority of U.S. cattlemen. I for one have always appreciated Willowcreek's candor and insight of the U.S. side of things. We may find this issue gets kind of emotional as we approach March 7, only 30 days away.

[Willowcreek]

cowman- but we live in two entire different countries...Different rules, laws, ways of thinking...This came to light quite clearly when Chretien snubbed the US and sided with the Europeans, Chiraque and Germany in the UN... We are not equal on most things..Whether it be money, taxes, business and land laws, whatever-- Then a term that was never heard of before BSE- "North American cattle industry" is shoved down our throats in an attempt to reopen the border...Most Canadians I know are proud to be Canadian and proud of their Canadian beef- altho Canadian beef has lost all its identity by being passed off for years with a USDA stamp as a US product. Most don't want to belong to the United States of North America.

We had cattle 100 years ago come to Montana from Texas and Mexico- does that mean we no longer have a Montana cattle industry and have a TexMex cattle industry?

[Willowcreek]

cakadu- here is the reason most in the states want all cattle permanently hot branded with CAN and heifers spayed.......

'Illegal trade' in cow passports or records!

All cattle destined for the food chain must have a passport
Cattle passports intended to ensure the origin and safety of beef are being bought and sold on the black market, say trading standards officers.
The passports were introduced to stop the spread of BSE and foot-and-mouth disease, and every British cow bound for the food chain must have one.

But trading standards officers found them being traded for up to £50, BBC Radio 4's Farming Today has learned.

A Lancashire farmer was arrested and freed on bail after an investigation.

Paperwork was removed from the man's farm, following the investigation into the movement of hundreds of animals.

'Inadequate'

Trading Standards spokesman Derek Smith said: "This could have serious consequences in terms of confidence in the British meat industry.

"Most farmers adhere to the rules and know they are there to restrict potential diseases.

"What we are looking at is probably the biggest breach of the rules seen in Britain."

Government rural advisor Lord Haskins said the discovery highlighted the inadequacy of the UK's food tracing system.

He also questioned whether the passport scheme was worth keeping.

All of the database systems and PREMISES systems have big holes in them and the cheating owners and packers are jepordizing safe food in the beef industry worldwide.