Cow size

[cswilson]

We did the pelvic measuring thing years ago-our heifers were pretty large all things considering. The heifer with the smallest pelvis needed assistance and the heifer with the biggest needed help so it was a wash I guess. I remember the biggest heifer clear as a day-I'd flipped a horse end over end the day before and had dislocated my ribs from my backbone-I was in no mood for obstetrics-not that I ever am. I guees if weather was a factor Randy give her one chance-mine calve out where it would be quite a rodeo to get a calf sucking lol.

[rkaiser]

Oh it was a bit of a rodeo here to Cory. She damn near jumped in the trailer with the baby when I tried to load her out in the field but not quite. After that my quad was getting stuck in the snow trying to chase her in and I had to hoof it. When she was in she was real nice to baby and let it suck right away like I said.

It is a heifer so it will be staying home and not going off to the beef program.

I am a believer in genetic selection by traits but when even the best case scenario gives about 40% heritability, we have to give a little.

Had another one of these little girls pump out a 92 pound bull calf last year, and yes he did need a little help. He is in the steer pen and I actually worried about the momma and brought her in to calf after that big first one. She had a 72 pound heifer calf this year out of the same bull.

I call it Mother Natures curve balls. Wink Wink.

[rkaiser]

Just under 800 pounds after a couple of days with a bale feeder and water per. 3 more calves out of the same mating and all the other three were heifers as well. The other three were between 70 and 72 pounds and the three mommas were a tad bigger than the one I wrote about. Don't have a camera right now, so I guess you will just have to come for a visit old buddy.

Randy

[per]

Calving, crop, then visit. I drove by my neighbors Welsh Black calves yesterday. They are a bunch of crackerjacks.

Phil

[rkaiser]

And just what else would you expect Phil..... WINK

Randy

[farmers_son]

Actually most new born calves are crackerjacks…just like puppies.

I checked out the link smcgrath76 provided. Some comments:

I noted the slide comparing cow weight to dry matter intake. In both the early and late gestataion examples the smaller cow consumed slightly more dry matter as a percentage of her weight when compared to the larger cow. The big cow was more efficient.

Using the information on the slides I could keep 20% more cows if I sold my 1400 pound cows and replaced them with 1030 pound cows. To be equal the smaller cows would have to wean 500 pound calves to equal the big cows weaning 600 pound calves. If the small cow herd can average more than 500 pounds weaned then the advantage goes to them.

However as mentioned in this thread the smaller cow is limited to what bull she can be safely bred too. A bigger bull should wean a bigger calf and it takes a bigger cow to push that calf out. My heifers can calve a 90 pound calf unassisted and the cows can calve 120-130 with no problem. I think that gives me an advantage when choosing a bull. I have helped 3 cows to calve so far this year which is not that much trouble. My cows are quiet and easy to handle even if they are big. I calved one out in the field while she lay there.

If you retain ownership until slaughter then weaning weight is not the be all, end all. Much of the cash cost is incurred when the calf is on feed and the calf that does good in the feedlot will be the most profitable overall, irrespective of cow size. It is my experience that a good growthy calf is the money maker in the feedlot. The little 70 pound calf at birth can take longer to feed, although they all get to slaughter weight eventually.

I strongly disagree with the statement in the slide presentation that cow size is the most important factor affecting profitability. I think reproductive performance is far more important and that there is more variability between cows regarding reproductive efficiency than there is regarding cow size/efficiency. No matter what size the cow is if she does not calve and get back into calf then she is not making you money that year and the next. My opinion. I think if we examined our herds objectively we would find too many cows/heifers walking around without a calf at their side. No money in that.

[per]

So that leads to a question. Does weight matter or is the conversation around efficiency? When would you weigh you cow to gauge her weight? Empty of feed and water, empty of calf, full, pregnant, spring, fall? An easy fleshing cow that brings home a soggy calf should be the goal no matter the size and disposition of the cow. All the other traits are personal management choices.

That Drovers site was quite interesting, thanks for the link.

[per]

I also meant to say that your analysis F_s was pretty much right on the money especially the last point on reproduction. No hope of profit on a cow calf operation if the cow doesn't have a calf.

[grassfarmer]

F_S, I note your comments on size and that the most expense going into the steer is in the feedlot. That is very much the way many think - but if barley hits $300T this fall perhaps your corn-burner genetics won't look so attractive?

Per, I think when we discuss cow weight it is usually based on the dry (weaned cow in the fall) weight.

[smcgrath76]

A couple of things we think about. Matching the cow to the resource base/production system is more important than actual size. If cows fit the production system, they will tend to end up where they need to be. This means for our place that our cows are getting smaller. It is also important to differentiate between making the environment fit the cow (they are thin so I will haul an extra bale) vs. making the cow fit the environment. I think for producers with a lot of resources (particularly a grain farm with waste products) larger cows can make a lot of sense. Early calvers might fall into that group too. For us somewhere a bit smaller just works better.
Interesting work has shown that producers who sell weaned calves should value reproduction;production;product(carcass) at 10:2:1. Retained ownership guys are at 2:1:1 and full value chain players are as high as 1:1:2. Again, this just confirms that the cow needs to fit the ranch, the ranch doesn't need to fit the cow.