Province Takes Over Alberta's Cattle Industry

[grassfarmer]

Sean, many of the comments here are based largely on the effect of this program on each individual's own operation, thats fair enough you have to consider that but the minister has a responsibility to advance the whole industry and to ensure that taxpayer money is invested wisely. I would suggest that the comment somebody made about him dragging the industry into the 21st century is apt. For too long we have been fed the BS about our age verification program being world leading whilst in reality it is a joke. Writing down the day your first calf was born and claiming that all 120 calves are thus "age verified" is a nonsense.
Proper age verification, and more importantly movement tracking are a basic requirement of beef production and exporting in many countries. If we want to be considered a world leader we must adopt these things even if it does mean dragging along some producers whose practices belong in the last century.
So instead of stealing the (crap and low value)information from producers and giving it to the packers for free as f_s suggests I think this can be looked on as raising the standard of all Canadian beef to new levels in terms of it's exportability and from that angle yes, it can be expected to open new markets.

[per]

That's it in a nutshell Grassfarmer. In the long run it is more desirable to find a niche in a strong industry and in a weak one. Rising to the top in a deep pool will be infinitely better than being at the top of a puddle that is fast evaporating.

[smcgrath76]

GF - I appreciate and tend to agree with some of what you are saying. I think mandatory age verification is a huge challenge as it effectively removes any premium for doing so, and costs every other province in Canada that sends cattle to AB to feed or slaughter. I disagree with your premise about age verification starting from first calving date. For example, we are a smaller operation than many but tagging and recording each calf at birth represents a huge cost to our operation. 100 calves at 15 minutes a calf, plus the associated danger is not worth it at all.
Did anyone also read the comments about reporting breeding, etc. This is a pretty broad based statement with potentially huge implications. Is it strictly breed composition of sires, or is it actual breeding of cows? I am not too worried about this as we are well down the DNA path in our own operation and can prove with certainty every calf born if we have to, but again, this could represent a potential huge cost to producers.
Time will tell what happens, but I think certain aspects of the program are anti personal responsibility and pursuit of markets. For example, I think the program that Randy is working on (Canada Gold) has merit, but does it require industry to have mandatory tracking, etc. or does it require the individual to get of their duff and pursue it?
I don't see much of this announcement affecting our operational aspects (unless they change age verification as you suggest). I do see it affecting my neighbours to a large degree. I also see it hugely affecting producers in other provinces. I can only guess what this will do to the interprovincial basis. My only quarrel is that I can't see where the extra money is going to come back to me or my neighbour.
I do agree wholeheartedly with GF and Randy that we need to pull our finger out and pursue some other markets and that the minister has to approach the whole of industry rather than the individual producer, but without investment in processors with a new mentality I can't see how the change can occur. Ask Rancher's beef how supportive the AB gov was of a new approach to processing.

[grassfarmer]

I'm not following you Sean, you have DNA'd your cow herd but at the moment don't know which cow produces which calf? Doesn't that make it hard to track progess?
One option for more extensive operations would be to use management tags and a note book - tag all your cows and then when you see a cow calved write down her number and the date. When you brand or process put on the ccia tags and a calf management tag numbered 1-100 for example. Let your calves back out with the cows and over the course of the summer you could match each calf to it's mother by observation and you could thus accurately age verify the calves plus you would be able to identify which cow reared which calf as a bonus.
For the majority of operations that calve in and around corrals it is a lot simpler. We calve out on the pasture and I tag, ring and weigh calves on a daily basis. Because we are running a proportion of purebreds we choose to do this but it works well for the commercials too. A simple old piece of junk metal that acts as a cage that lifts with the loader works for me. Keeps you safe and gets the job done on day one. Just don't leave it to day two or you can't catch the little @$%Y^#^s, LOL

[smcgrath76]

GF - i do know which calf is from which cow, but often do not know which day that cow calved, or can't read her tag I am not the norm. Can the guy with 1200 cows do the same thing?
Basically I am looking at an added cost of nearly $12.50 per calf to tag at birth, when calving start date accomplishes the same thing for all intents and purposes. I would prefer to spend that $12.50 on parentage verification and BVD PI testing among other things.
Further, I don't see where the extra money is going to come from in the marketplace. Can someone please explain this to me? I am open to ideas here?
Another challenge we face at home is that we have cattle out in other provinces. What does our lessee have to provide for me to meet the AB criteria when I bring the cattle home, and what do I have to pay them to achieve this? No one has yet answered the questions abour interprovincial trade.
I appreciate that tagging calves at birth is easier in a system where cows are corraled, but I don't see that as a reasonable option for many.
I think the issue is not related to logicstics of any individual operation, it is strictly this...
What will following all of these requirements cost?
Where is the return to primary producers going to come from and is it greater than the cost?
Personally, I think the comments about getting rid of the CWB are misleading. What the AB Gov really wants to do is role beef cattle into the CWB as a board crop.

[smcgrath76]

Further thinking on plausible scenarios...
2009 everyone in AB is premise verified, and age verifies their calves. They all get a cheque. there is no longer a premium for age verified calves.
2010 - everyone is still premise verified and does not age verify their calves because the government is not paying them to do so. The premium for age verified calves returns in 2011.

I think a program with a similar end result was the set aside program. Remember those lovely pink ear tags.

[grassfarmer]

Sean,
Where is the extra money going to come from? well one place could be Europe. Make no mistake for all the talk about having the best beef in the world and being ready to sell beef to Europe we are not. Most producers have no idea of the basic product requirements needed in Europe as they are drastically different to N America. It is also a prerequisite that we have a credible traceability, welfare and health protocol like the one George is proposing in place. If we don't we will meet the same fate as Brazil - shut out of EU exports because they are raised to nothing like the standards that EU producers have to comply to. European producers have become adept at monitoring where imports are coming from and are quick to raise industry and public attention to any that do not meet their domestic production standards. Food is such a sensitive issue in Europe that the politicians always act on the producer inspired public protests about perceived food safety and quality issues.

I agree that interprovincial trade will be an issue - this should have been a Federal program. As long as it is only a provincial program I assume that SK,MB or BC cattle are now worth Alberta price minus a widened basis. If producers in the other provinces voluntarily age verify and keep all the same health records etc they should be worth as much as Alberta cattle but of course the producers in these other provinces won't be getting government cheques to do it.

Yes it might be pretty much like the set aside program - a government attempt to help producers. Set aside worked well for most producers, a little money for something most were doing already (retaining replacement heifers/bulls at a minimum) and were able to do very easily(slap an extra ccia tag on and fill in a few forms) Time will tell if the goals of this program are met - the status quo wasn't a great option though.

[kato]

If this thing takes hold, I can see the Manitoba government getting in on something like it, but probably without any cheques to sweeten the deal. ;-) Being good NDP'ers, they just love a good bureaucratic endeavor. They have also shown us lately with the hog farmers just how high agriculture stands in the priority list, so a payout like you guys are getting is not likely to happen.

Just a thought here.

OK, so the government is mandating age verification etc. My question is, who are they asking you to prove to that you verified the calves? I would think that under the privacy act, that any information you send them about your calves would be covered unless you gave permission ot release it. From what I understand, age verification papers only mean something if they have your signature on them. Why would it not be possible to age verify for the government, and yet withhold the papers?

It all may be moot anyway, because even now, when you look at it, are we getting a premium for age verifying? Or are we just not getting a discount for not doing it? How would we ever really know? They days of discounts are coming fast, and I know that when or if we buy feeders this fall, I'd be very wary of buying generic calves, especially with what's going on in Alberta right now, to say nothing of the U.S.

[smcgrath76]

A couple of very innocent questions...
Can't individual producers pursue EU certification and systems without the whole industry doing it? This is the approach in New Zealand. If a group of producers can extract value from europe by jumping through all the hoops then let them fire away.
This is just an example, there are other markets with different requirements that could jsut as easily be met by individual programs.
Read very carefully what the implementation plan says and also the direction about what they want to make public and the definition of "who is the public?" Lots of mandatory things, very loose defintion of public at this point. For example, I am not sure how we will get to mandatory movement tracking with any sort of economic efficiency. I think the costs that occur in advance of markets opening may very well drive a lot of producers out.
I do appreciate the frustration of the minister with industry, even though I disagree with his approach. I don't think however that $300 million is enough to bridge the gap between increased cost versus market opening and market premiums.
With all of this stuff, I am not too concerned about our operation as even movement tracking is standard operating procedure at our place, but we are not exactly normal.

[perfecho]

The AB gov may be very frustrated with our industry; however I feel they helped bring on much of the problem with their involvement of packer monopoly......and continuing support of it.
Age verification is only one piece of the puzzle, not the magic bean. Banning implants, reducing feedlot size, anti-biotic reduction would open many more doors, and sooner....but, we all know why this won't become a marketing plan.
Until we have a competing market for our calves, not 2 players, our ship will sail the same course.
Those that have the will and energy to find their own markets outside the corrupted system will receive their deserved premium.
Some of us are just a little too tired ;-)

[wd40]

There is only one solution and it's too simple. Collect 60,000 people from Western Canada from the
1)pure breed industry
2)Cow Calf industry
3)a few feedlots
4)service industry (John Deer dealers or Ford dealers etc)
@ $2,000 each you'd build the newest state of the art people owned packing plant (cash) and our two subsidized plants would fold and go home.
If F_S is worried about profitability the 2 existing plants work on a 30 % net margin after tax.
But most of the winning in the above colume opposed all iniatives a in our previous life.

[wd40]

One small perspective reminder!

When a packer says he is losing money and before you bend over to kiss their toes, here's their Profit Formula
Expected Profit = $800
Actual Profit = $600
Net loss = $200

[grassfarmer]

Has anyone read the ABP statement on the new policy on their website? it contains a lot of pot-calling-kettle-black funnies:
"Industry Governance: Must remain democratic and respect the rights of individual producer." - hmmm unlike ABP Governance then?

"In a very diverse industry, ABP is very concerned about the concentration of policy and financial influence in the Alberta Livestock and Meat Agency, an organization that is not founded on democratic principles." hmmm again unlike the ABP who may have been founded on democratic principles but certainly don't operate under them now?

"Industry strategies must be developed in collaboration with the representatives of all producers."
That's too funny - for once this seems to have actually happened but ABP have taken the huff because others are getting an input and the policies developed don't agree with theirs.
Time to lead or get out of the way boys.

[per]

When the ABP can boast that their membership is subscribed to voluntarily then they can claim to represent the industry in Alberta. As long as they continue to ignore the voices outside the rank and file then they don't speak for the industry. When asked to participate with other groups (voluntary membership) they made fools of themselves by not fully participating. During the meeting on Tuesday the area 2 reps. suggested some excellent reform that would have satisfied some of my concerns about ABP governance. Soundly voted down. Too bad it couldn't go to a plebiscite. I wonder what the results and participation would have been.

[Kathy]

The newly announced Alberta "Recovery Program" which will distribute hundreds of millions of dollars to Alberta agriculture... hinges upon the producer REGISTERING THEIR PREMISES.

The Alberta government has decided to set up a "Livestock and Meat Agency" which will do ...... what? Perhaps, like the Agristability/Invest program, it can (and will) change in a material or non-material way to an even more draconian strategy.

Cheques are in the mail. We got our cheques, BUT WE WON'T BE CASHING THEM!

This progam is open bribery! [actually, its extortion]. An attempt by the Alberta government, on behalf of those that wish to form a North American Union (integrate the USA, Canada and Mexico), to buy our freedom.

Registration of "premises", is akin to licensing of your farming operation. Once a licensing progam is started, (similar to licensing professionals like vets, dentists, doctors, etc)..... It hands over power to control your operations to the "authority" that grants your licence, and they can, and will, revoke it, at their discretion!

Someone other than you, will decide if you are "fit" to raise cattle, chickens, pigs, grow crops etc.... You will perform your "food raising" practices according to them; and if you don't, you will lose your license (premise id)... and be unable to sell your product on the newly defined market.

Americans have been fighting this intrusion upon their rights for quite some time now. Several states have even passed legislation forbidding the premise id and National Animal ID programs. Their courts have said that the NAIS is a violation of the ranchers right to privacy.

In Alberta, our arrogant majority Conservative government is going to ask foreign experts how to spend my (and yours) tax dollars, as they relate to programs for agriculture and meat production. Apparently, Albertans don't have the thought capacity to handle these issues for themselves.

This reminds me of the Alberta Prion Institute that goes out and hires all these foreign doctors to tell us how to run our BSE/CWD research labs. Dr. David Westaway actually stated at a CWD meeting that copper had nothing to do with the prion protein. Any moron who can read, can find out about this relationship for himself. Copper is an integral part of the healthy prion protein, and if other rogue metals attach to it, well we all know what happens. But this *@@@%! is going to tell the Alberta government how to run our BSE labs so we can eliminate the disease. Excuse me while I laugh myself to death.

Unless legislation is passed, this is not mandatory. And until it is LAW, we will not cash our cheques... we will return them so Groenveld can hold onto them for us.

I haven't forgotten how former Alberta Premier Ralph Klein called us "welfare cowboys". I guess government feels so strongly about us being "welfare cases" that they are going to run our businesses for us now.

Are we this desperate for money? I know I'm not. I am grateful for this status... as it doesn't appear to be to common.

Is it worth giving up control of our lives and farming operations, to receive hand-outs from government to "recover"?

Our handout would be approximately $16,000 with ALL cheques - assuming the post Jan 2009 cheques will be the same as the two we recently received in the mail. My farm is worth alot more than that. If they want me out of the business, then they should buy me out... this can be a good "exit strategy" for many producers that would leave, if given a fair cash value for their farms. [But why should they pay full price when they can have our operations for pennies]

Previously, one Alberta Farm Services Corporation representative said to me (a month ago - when I stated their "declaration of applicant" for the newly revamped AgriStability Program, was an abomination)....
She said.... "that if you're going to take money from the government
then the government is going to be able to tell you what to do".

I have not signed this pathetic "declaration of applicant" for the AgriStability program, nor will we.

I will not accept the Alberta government's bribe money to sign up my 'premises' for their new "recovery program" and "Livestock and Meat Agency" strategy. **This is not merely signing up your land location! This is signing up you business operations and facilities... they must then meet the requirements as set out by the international experts that Groenveld is going to listen to. If you aren't up to snuff (kind of like old gas stations and restaurants), you will have only so much time to up-grade or LOSE your government granted premise ID (ie: license).

Commrade Groenveld and Commrade Stelmach can take their extortion/bribe money to help pay for their new, self-authorized 30% pay raises.

Alberta is the "proving grounds" for those that wish a "New World Order". If they can pass this draconian strategy into legislation here, in the heart of cattle country (in Canada), then they will have precedent for the rest of the country and continent.
[ie; security and properity partnership - SPP]

I thought the West was won by self-made men and women - where are they now?

The bottom line is cost of production, and adding more hoops to jump through will only increase our cost of production. A voluntary program is all that is required... if it works for some, then more will sign up for the program. Making this STRATEGY mandatory - I'm waiting for legislation - is Communism at its best.

All hail the foreign experts who will tell us how to manage our operations, bow to their feet and thank them for saving us!