Changes are Needed

[cakadu]

In order to go down a path that will help us to dig our way out of this crisis, we need some real leadership to come to the fore and do what needs to be done. We have to quit running back and forth to see who is going to give us the biggest bailout because that won't work.

First and foremost we have to have a total and complete ban on using rendered animals in any type of feed that could possibly end up in the food chain at some point. Adopting the EU guidelines comes to mind.

Let's face it - more and more consumers are telling us what they want and what they are willing to pay for. They DON'T want to see hormones continued to be used in food animals, they don't want rendered animal parts ending up in animal food that will eventually become part of the human food chain.

How do you feel about adopting strong legislation for contaminating the food supply?

What else would you see being an assist in our attempt to become world leaders in how we treat our food?

[charliep]

Cakadu

Not critism but a question of competitivess when Canada could potentially be asked to live by a different set of rules than the US. The Canadian meat industry tries to capture value out of everything in an animal but the moo. What happens when byproducts that have value are converted into something that may have to be cost to dispose of? Will the consumer pay more? Are there alternative non food uses?

[Smithy]

The problem I see with using rendered carcasses in animal food is that we are using it for animals that are commonly fed with ruminants. Dogs and chickens, for instance, are frequently fed in areas cows share. Maybe we should limit by products that could be dangerous for ruminants to fish food.

[ValueChainFX]

charliep your point is well taken, however Canada is in a position right this minute that our product value less than desirable. As an exporting country and an innovative country we best look at all the alternatives we can. There are technologies out there that are being developed successfully to change waste into energy. Processing plant wastes are being converted into barrels of oil on a daily basis at a ratio of 85% return. Many projects are underway to do just this such as a $20ML project in conjunction with a poultry processing plant that will produce 600 barrels of oil daily.

Yes we need changes and we need to do a better job in the industry to meet the changes in the market place. You and I both know that as industry leaders we need to focus on this issue put something in place. Make sure it works and than share it with the rest of the industry.

These things are happening right now in Canada as well. They don't fit the standard funding we have in the industry today and therefore we need some innovative financing to make this happen. But it will happen and we are the ones that will make it happen. The industry leaders that are still looking for who is to blame can keep looking the rest of us best pull our resources together and put the components in place to fix this mess.

[ALICIA]

Good news, our top beef eaters I was told are stocking up on the cheep beef because they know this is going to pass and beef is going back to the top.
Just a little smile, oka.

[cakadu]

Charlie - what would prevent us from adopting practices that put us light years ahead of our US counterparts? That would put COOL in a totally different light, wouldn't it?

I don't see it as a criticism of what we do; rather it is a chance to expand on what we are already doing. In light of the fact that the APF is looking for us to Brand Canada, wouldn't that be a particularly good thing to use in order to brand ourselves?

In terms of needing to use everything but the moo in order to make money, doesn't that speak volumes in and of itself? In relative terms, are we making anything in a cow/calf operation anymore or when we compare it to say 20 or 30 years ago? This mad rush to go global may be hurting us bigtime.

This is where I see the real leadership coming from.

Your thoughts?

[jensend]

Cakadu: I guess where the major difference between your point of view and mine lies is that you look down the road and say this is how it should be whereas many producers are saying that's fine but we have to survive economically from one year to the next and if you want a particular situation you will have to pay for it in order for it to be sustained. I would prefer to farm with less chemical fertilizer, herbicides or pesticides but in order to be around next year I have to do the things that will allow me to be here then. You have a (many) vision(s) of how things should be but as we all know just wanting something is the first step. Your biggest job will be to convince consumers because it appears to me that by doing the economically expedient thing I am giving the consumer what they want: cheap food.
Very few see any further than that.

[ALICIA]

Your right. All they want is cheap food,and they think its there right because its a necessity.
But they will pay the big bucks to eat in a fancy restraint

[charliep]

Does the whole industry have to change or is their room for more branded/specialty products?

I watch my brother and there are definitely niche markets in urban communities for home raised beef (closed herd, no hormones, treated humanely, feed purchased from known sources, anti biotics only when required/records kept, owner trusted, etc.). A part of this program could extend to how by products are handled (not returned to animal food chain).

It is there today but still tough to make a buck given required smaller size/extra work.

[cakadu]

I've given it some thought jensend and you're right - we need short term solutions right now - I'm not sure if loans to producers etc. are the way to go because it has been my experience that you cannot borrow your way out of trouble. I also have problems with the proposed bailout package if it has too many strings attached to it i.e. signing up for the national disaster program. I'm kind of at a loss to understand why SARS got all this help and yet the ruminant industry, which adds a significant amount not only to Alberta's but Canada's GDP, has been slow in coming. We also have to remember that while much smaller the sheep industry has been hit hard by all of this as well because nothing they produce can go across the border either.

Charlie, the whole industry just might have to change. In looking at things over the past 10 years or so, agriculture as we know it has changed and is continuing to change. Look at the growing demand for products that have no hormones, anti-microbials etc. and it makes you wonder how long we can continue to go at the pace that we have been.

Where is the 20% increase in beef production going to go? Is that even a path that we should be continuing to go down, given recent events - and I'm talking more than just the BSE thing, the drought, higher feed prices etc. We haven't even begun to look at the impact that COOL will have on us, nor are we too willing to look at the fact that when countries like Brazil, who are purported to have 160 million cattle are able to export to some of those we export to and the impact that will have on us.

Yes, we have the safest, best product in the world, but if other countries are willing to give customers what they want i.e. hormone free beef, then how are we going to compete. Just in costs of production alone, we cannot compete with countries that do not have to feed for about 200 days of the year - in a good year.

What if we were to adopt stricter practices such as no rendered animals in any animal that makes it inot the human food chain, or horomones or anti-microbials, what markets would that open up for us?

One of the major reasons animals have to be given anti-microbials in their feed is to prevent disease and keep the gut flora in check because animals that were designed to eat grass do not have the digestive systems to be able to handle all of the grains etc. that are poured to them in the feed lots.

I keep thinking of the potential if we are just able to shift our focus away from current practices. If you look at things over the last 40 or 50 years when we went to confined feeding operations, how have incomes fared. We know that margins are razor thin, which is why they have to sell everything in order to make even the smallest of margins. What are we doing that for? What can we do to change that? I'm kind of curious to know.

[ValueChainFX]

Well we have an interesting discussion here that takes us back to a producer-focused system. We talked about re-engineering the beef industry in the later part of the 90's and all agreed that it needed to happen. The challenge is we all keep thinking about what the meat industry calls commodity products. (Standard block ready cuts from feedlot beef going into retail markets) This push comes from the big plants like Cargill and IBP that can only handle assembly line cutting. The niche markets are only niche markets because we have been unable to tap into them in a bigger way!

The reasons for this are simple really. First we lack the Federal plants to custom kill and custom cut our product.

We already have a Canadian branded product. Many Americans want our Canadian product and ask for it. But also we have not done all we can to market our Canadian product here in Canada. Our focus has been exports and we have done well there.... again mostly through the big packers ... Cargill ... Ibp ... better beef etc.

We can change the system now and for less than anyone thinks. But some of the leaders need to pull together and let the government and industry know we are willing and able to do this.

We are going to see many of these changes soon and either the industry will make them or the government forces us to make them. I would rather make them and let the government support them!

Anyway, your thoughts?

[rusty1]

VCFX - I truly hope youre not recomending that the Govt. builds a packing plant. That's the last thing we need. You're right when you say it wouldn't take much to build our own. Infact the current packing industry steal's enough producer money in discounts that the producers could build their own. The other thing I hope the powers that be get to work on is broadening our export market. If the American like our beef I'm sure a couple of used car salesmen could sell our products to some over the pond markets.

[ValueChainFX]

Rusty we will never see government build a packing plant! The producer monies are not in a lake that we can go and scope buckets of it out to do what is needed. It is however in a river. The river we helped the government establish, with fees, and check offs and associations, commissions, councils etc. that need some changes to match their real mandate of the day!

I talk about innovative finances being required, but when the pot is tallied at the end of the day the producer still needs to own the processing unit in such a way that the values created come back to the producer. To date the challenges have been government invests funds in the supply chain beyond the producer and in the words of a top government official "It is hoped the benefits will trickle down to the producer". End quote.

We all know that will not happen. We don't just need a packing plant (although a major component) but a way to market our product into markets that are more stable, and have fewer boarders to cross. This last scare showed us what happens when our boarders close. It also shows us why we cannot give any more of the Canadian Market place away.
The name of this thread is "Changes are needed" well as good stewards of the industry it is our jobs to predict changes and come up with at least possibilities to deal with challenges that could happen. It just happens this is the case here and literally years of discussion, joint efforts and study has gone into this project and the associated programs. The will is finally there throughout the Canadian meat sector (not just beef) now it is time for the producers to stand up and make it happen.
The challenge with many producers is they are an independent lot and will they agree enough to pull this off or will they wait until someone figures out a way to do this and AGAIN leave the producers out! We can be critics or we can help make it happen, but fence sitting is best left out to the ones that like to stir the pot! Can you help make it happen?

[rusty1]

There's at leat 2 reason for why we havn't taken controll of our markets todate.
1. Us Canadians are way too nice and are to quick to put some people on an ivory throne
and kiss their feet.. 2. The other reason is we are too quick to accept "Hostage syndrome"
Out WEst we love to run around doing what we love best and if we're making money then who
cares if we're being ..... Just look at our East - West inequities and for how long we have
sat back and said "ho - hum".
Not till it really hurts are we willing to stand up and say "enough is enough". Maybe we
are going to hurt enoug now to do it. One could only dream - it's uncalcuable of the benefits
that the industry would realize if only - if only we could collectively (dream on) put the
resources together to build orbuy out one of the two US packers. 1.) The discounts turned priemium
alone would probably do it. It really wouldn't take as much as we think.
2, Can you imagine the (wow oh wow) power and benifets if the producers had control
of the retailer and told him how to market the beef instead of "charge what the market bears".
3. Carcass data would become the property of the producer and real genetic progress could begin.
Dare one dream of the day!! And yes I'm ready to get behind the plow. I've seen the iron curtain fall
and the Berlin Wall come down and this is achievable easier than one would think.

[ValueChainFX]

rusty1 ... Yes rusty we are hostages to the present system, but only because we want to be. We really are hurting today, but not as much as we are going to be hurting soon. There are going to be big changes! Any guesses who may pay for those changes?

We have already determined the US plants of today Cargill and IBP are not capable of meeting the future needs of the emerging markets and regulations. Trace back is a main issue and their ability to meet specific customer specifications on specialty cuts will not happen. This is very evident when the Japanese customers want smaller pack sizes with inner boxes weighed than packed in a master. This simple step could not be done. (More to the point they wouldn't do it) Buy what we have or forget it.

Now a producer in a Value Chain system can not even begin to dream of some of the benefits this could produce. Don't get your hopes up, don't expect this is another one of those promises. All I can say, is that it is much easier for you to make choices when you have information in front of you from the rest of the supply chain to make choices on. Plus, if you put extra work or money into your animal for a program you can be paid back for it. Wonder how many producers saw any of the premium dollars from product shipped to Japan where premiums are a part of the business!
Presently our communication system is ready to implement into a proto-type plant and will provide trace back and information feed back for carcass, live inventory, feeds, security etc.

Keep in mind that the Canadian Berlin wall has been gradually built by producers, academics, consultants, researchers, stakeholders and government. Can we come together collectively well maybe not in terms of 20 30 or 40 million, but that is not the kind of money that is required to move forward. In fact we believe that a small proto-type plant under 5ml will provide all the base line infrastructure needed and a foot print for other plants much more effective and efficient than we have now.

Each component in our present plan (which is on the table now and ready to implement) address the needs of the industry as a whole and specifically the producer. This is the first time a plan has been offered with direct producer benefit and the government does not have to HOPE for a trickle down to producers.

So come on board and get involved, I like the guys that say I like the plan but I don't know how I can help. Either you are in the agriculture business or not, if you want to help than offer your help in what you do best. We need to go over these challenges, around them, under them or through them.

Waitng to see who is ready to build the industry?????