Check-off

[smcgrath76]

While I share concerns regarding directional checkoff and splintering of the funding base across a variety of groups, I also think that some form of directional or refundable checkoff is a good move. If you look at what beef spends on promotion vs. what dairy or chicken or other industries do, it is pretty much a joke. That said I think with the current industry structure we do see a lot of the grass roots supporting the profitability of those further up the chain.
So my thoughts are concerned with directional, full support of refundable.

[BFW]

Its interesting to listen listen to ABP's argument against the ALMS as being undemocratic and forcing mandatory age verification etc upon producers when in fact their very existence depends upon government legislation and their funding upon a mandatory, nonrefundable check-off. Clearly this type of organization has little or no value to today's industry. Ultimately making the check-off refundable will be the savior of the ABP as it will force it to become responsible to the people and businesses who chose to support it. Cruel irony. Remember CHOICE MATTERS!!!

[coppertop]

For the record Kee Jim and Darcy Davis received government appointments and would have been total fools to turn them down.
I was impressed with Kee's remarks regarding the new ALMS at the Beef Beyond Borders conference last July, and honestly think he will be an asset to the producers in his role with the Secretariat.

[grassfarmer]

Oh I wasn't implying Kee Jim was any fool, he is a smart guy and will be a great asset to the ALMS. He probably also realises the days of ABP/CCA playing a significant role in producer representation are coming to an end.

[per]

Once again I applaud your insight into this issue grassfarmer. If Kee Jim focuses on the greater good rather than Kee Jim's good he will be a huge assest. As far as the ABP being the democratic voice of the producers, we voted for the present GOA and the Ag Minister is just as democraticly elected as the Chairman of the ABP. It is a strange argument especially when their funding is not voluntary. We will see what relevence the voice of the ABP has when the check-off is refundable. I for one, will ask for it to be sent back to me so I can direct it where I think it will be of good use. I also believe it is important that the best use is in an industry organization and not in our own pockets. I suppose on that note if the APB gets it's head out of the sand it will most likely continue to be a winner in the check-off battle.

[farmers_son]

The issue before cow calf producers in Alberta right now is not a refundable or directional checkoff. It is ALMS and whether our industry should be market driven and producer driven or should it be mandatory and government controlled; directed through whatever is the cobbled together agency of the day; our activities, our futures and our ability to carry on determined by whoever is the Ag Minister at the moment. If anyone thinks a three buck check off even is an issue when Alberta’s cow calf producers are faced with that kind of challenge from government then they are clearly the ones with their heads in the sand.

[grassfarmer]

Well that's what the ABP and their/your SOSA(Save Our Sorry Asses)campaign is about anyway farmers_son - trying to make producers think the Government is out to get them with the big bad ALMS.
However the issue of concern among producers in recent years has been the leadership (or total lack thereof)by ABP/CCA. I'll remind you again of the proud record - the packers friends always voting against producer resolutions to ban packer ownership of fat cattle, against voluntary BSE testing ... the list goes on and on.
This IS the issue of the day, if anything is cobbled together it's the pathetic campaign by the ABP to discredit the ALMS. Just remember you are the ONLY producer group opposing the ALMS.... feeling out on a limb there?

[farmers_son]

I am sure you can find issues with ABP that you disagree with. And Grassfarmer probably has more issues than most. I was thinking the other day the only way Grassfarmer would have anything good to say about ABP was if they would put a picture of a Luing cow on the cover of the Annual Report and even then he might complain that the picture should have had two Luing cows in it. ;--) But we need to understand that we in Alberta are facing a fundamental change in the cattle industry. Some might feel that government control is necessary to ensure the cattle industry’s survival. Some of us do not feel that way and feel the government control is about a forced shift of profitability from the cow calf sector to the packer sector in order to ensure packer profitability. ALMS is clearly the issue of the day in this province.

There is a tendency in times of crisis, and we are in a time of crisis, to focus on small issues because the big picture is too overwhelming. If this province’s cow producers are busy debating the three buck check off at this time is like standing on the rail tracks with a freight train bearing down on you while you search on the ground for the three loonies you dropped. The fact is it is time to focus on the train, you can search for the three bucks after the train passes.

We can debate the pros and cons of packer ownership, ABP and so on until the cows come home. But cow calf producers are being sold a pack of lies by the Province of Alberta and that is what needs our attention. I have been to the ALMS meetings and the Province is lying out of both sides of their mouth at the same time. They are soft peddling the full extent to which the cow calf producer will be controlled, the extent of the fines and punishment for non compliance and the full degree of government intrusion into our lives at the same time as overemphasizing any potential producer benefits from ALMS (other than getting one more subsidy cheque)in order to persuade producers to buy in. The Government is offering sales to Asia as some of magic bullet that will save us if we only quietly agree to sit under the umbrella of Government control. Nowhere in their grand scheme is there any discussion of how any of the expected benefits actually end up shown in higher live calf prices and the reality is the Government cannot connect those dots because it will not happen. The fact remains the hog industry did achieve sales to Asia and they are worse off than the cow calf guy. Australia does export large volumes to Asia and their live cattle prices are lower than ours. Yet it is for darn sure that the primary cow calf producer is going to stand the costs of ALMS and I leave it up to the reader to figure out who is going to reap any benefits.

[grassfarmer]

You must be joking f_s - I wouldn't prostitute any of my cows to appear on the cover of your sad little comic!

You say "Some of us do not feel that way and feel the government control is about a forced shift of profitability from the cow calf sector to the packer sector in order to ensure packer profitability."
What?? do you/ABP still believe there is profitability in the cow calf sector currently and not in the packer sector??
Newsflash! this transfer of profitability happened a while ago with the willing support of ABP (remember the packer ownership of cattle issue and the ABP votes on them?)This happened right under the noses of ABP in the guise of the "free marketplace" you are so keen to champion.

I agree when you say "There is a tendency in times of crisis, and we are in a time of crisis, to focus on small issues because the big picture is too overwhelming." The overwhelming crisis is zero profitability in the cow/calf sector due to packer concentration and a captive supply situation both in Canadian feedlots and within the north American continental beef market, all aided and abetted by the ABP/CCA.
The small issue in this case is the relatively simple housekeeping rules being put in place by the Alberta Government to bring our production standards up to/ahead of our competitors.

Next you slam the Alberta Government for trying to gain market access to Asian markets with no indication of how these higher value sales would benefit the cow/calf producer. A case of the pot calling the kettle black from the ABP who propose the "free market" solution of doing nothing, continuing to supply the US market and relying on the trickle down effect to boost producers returns. Time and again ABP has refused to tackle, or let alone acknowledge, the fact that packers do not pass on any enhanced returns they achieve from the marketplace. Your policies have backed the packer in his position of dominance at every turn and you now have the cheek to accuse the AB Government of trying to help them through the ALMS when in fact this is so far the only vehicle that anyone has come up with that has a chance of breaking this packer death grip around producers necks in North America.

You say "Australia does export large volumes to Asia and their live cattle prices are lower than ours." I guess you missed the post from malleefarmer in your other thread that refuted your statement that Australian fat steers were $300 cheaper than in Canada? In fact he claimed they were $50 higher.

So no the $3 levy isn't the big issue. The issue is leadership and how we achieve the aim of helping primary producers gain a future. The tough issues of packer control, captive supply and accessing new markets off this continent must be addressed if we are to have a future. ABP has stood on the sidelines and done nothing but encourage the protagonists of the above mentioned problems for years now. For that reason your organisation along with the CCA must be neutered so that producers can move ahead with industry leadership worthy of that title. I've said it before and I'll say it again - this campaign against ALMS is nothing but a decoy operation to distract producers from seeing the real issues. I predict your campaign will fail and that your days are numbered.

[farmers_son]

You are correct in that I missed the reply from malleefarmer. The live price of fat cattle is similar in Alberta and Australia, that is about 88-90 cents per pound live until you adjust the price for the differences in the dollar. When converted to US dollars the Australian finished steer price is 70 cents per pound, the Alberta price is 83 cents US. That amounts to the Australian steer being worth $175 US less than the Alberta steer. Friday the Aussie dollar was .7886 US and the Canuck buck was worth .9268 US.

For comparison live choice steers in the U.S. traded at 96-97 cents. I know which market I want to access.

See:
http://theland.farmonline.com.au/files/markets/20080929_Mkt_Cattle_NSW_Wagga.pdf