ABP Resolution

[Sawbones]

I guess anyone can pick a story that illustrates their point like "the lion separating its prey" but how about the buffalo that stuck together and jumped over the cliffs. ABP has not advocated for the cow/calf producer in recent history. In 2004, they were silent when CAIS decided to claw back funds because the value of the cow had increased. The funds that were put into the industry paid off bills raised the optomism of the producer who in turn invested back into the industry. To allow a claw back based on that premise was preposterous and not a word from ABP. In 2006 under the Agristability program ABP was not only silent but endorsed the policy of not changing the value of the cow from the beginning to ending inventory...the only commodity to do so..and this cost the cow calf producer millions. Currently our Ag minister is touring Asia to increase sales and hopefully will be successful or at least XL hopes so because that will be about there only market. I know we can hardly wait for that trickle down affect to kick in..and ABP dollars will be used to help pay for a lot of that advertising and promotion. Randy we do need another voice as ABP is not listening

[rkaiser]

I guess I simply do not see the provincial governement tackling the dismantling of ABP or the checkoff. And after sitting in on and contributing to the B5 group which formed the basis of ALMA, I saw no other group with any real concrete plans and just as many finger pointing ego's as ABP has in their boardroom. Directing the checkoff to other groups who are all about talk will get us no where. I am planning on presenting a resolution at the next meeting that would ask ABP to support programs with marketing action initiatives. Whether those actions be the Canada Gold program, which I also had a hand in developing of programs like GF's or our own Canadian Celtic program, or Spring Creek or etc. etc. All programs intended to increase consumption AND more importantly increase the consumer price of beef. Policy is policy and we can argue that til the cows come home.

The only policy that I could see being changed right now that would help our situation would be for ABP or any other group to take on the retailers and ask them to stop using our "food of Kings" as a lost leader for friggin french fries. Paid $4.1o for a GD dipped cone at DQ yesterday while reading a sign that drug people in for a 99 cent burger. Pathetic

Action is action and I feel it would be hard for ABP to deny supporting action. Once a resolution like this makes it to the floor of the AGM, the media will see it and I find it hard to believe that they would risk dumping it in front of the public like that.

[loric]

Just a heads up that I have the same person hired to webcast the resolutions debate at the AGM as I used for the Plan Review debate at the semi annual meeting. I'll post more details closer to the date (AGM is Dec 8-10 in Calgary). The website is www.wlex.ca

[grassfarmer]

I don't agree with that chain of thought Randy. We delivered 6.25 beefs to Calgary today and came back with over $11,000. The ABP film showed the average retail price of beef at around $12 a kilo? Our rapidly increasing customer base are getting what they perceive to be a far better than store bought product for closer to $9 a kilo and we are making good money supplying them. I do not agree that customers need to pay more for beef to secure a living for producers. In my opinion there is plenty money generated in the production chain - the biggest problem is primary producers are currently not getting their fair share of it.

I also have no desire to have anyone fund my marketing efforts - if you make it easy everyone will be tempted to do it which will cut the margins of the entrepreneurs who have forged their own paths.

[farmers_son]

Grassfarmer: Coming back with $11,000 is pretty impressive, if you were able to share some of the costs of doing that it would be very helpful. I have always been under the impression that the costs of marketing relatively small quantities of beef were too high to make it viable. I know I saw somewhere that there was some work being done on traveling slaughter plants that would come to your place. The Province was doing something like that but I have heard nothing for a while. The cost of custom slaughter is not cheap.

In broad terms I agree with your statement “do not agree that customers need to pay more for beef to secure a living for producers. In my opinion there is plenty money generated in the production chain - the biggest problem is primary producers are currently not getting their fair share of it.”

However the solutions are not easy. I have pointed out many times there is a market for beef and there is a market for live cattle. Right now the market for live cattle is not enough to sustain the cow calf producer. I think it would be fair to say that the same greed that we see destroying the financial markets is alive and well in the beef value chain and that there are players up the value chain that do not have a care for anyone else.

And I certainly agree with Rkaiser’s comment “Directing the checkoff to other groups who are all about talk will get us no where.”

There was really a lot of effort and consultation with people who were ABP supporters as well as people who were definitely not ABP supporters in drafting the ABP Plan Review. Directional and refundable checkoff certainly was discussed and discussed some more but the decision was to keep the checkoff as it was. COOL is hurting us bad right now and the money to fight that issue is going to have to come from somewhere and ABP is in a position to tackle that head on because ABP has secure funding.

[grassfarmer]

Farmers_son, in the roughest of terms without going into a lot of detail we net just over $1200 per animal after paying around $420 to get the basic butchering done plus allocate a fuel cost for delivery. These are 600lb carcase animals. Extra processing like sausages jerky etc boost our gross return but not the net as we just pass on the additional charges for these services from butcher to customer.
Where we really make money is that these are low cost cattle - they are essentially just grassed yearlings (albeit with a higher level of management involved) from our herd that starts calving in mid April. The beef we deliver now comes off calves that were 500lb calves this time last year.
No high cost cow system here and no grain or feed-lotting involved in producing the beef. It works for us and the opportunities that are arising for sales are just amazing us.

[grassfarmer]

Farmers_son, No "the solutions are not easy." as you say - however I'm still looking for an explanation as to why the majority of ABP delegates support packer ownership of cattle. This is clearly a factor influencing the problem of their being enough money paid by consumers for beef yet not enough being paid to producers for live cattle to allow them to survive.

COOL certainly looks to be the scapegoat for poor producer returns just now - last year it was the high dollar, high grain price, before that BSE - always an easy scapegoat that prevents attention being directed to where it should be.
As far as ABP having funds to fight COOL i'm not so sure that is a great idea. Much producer money (and it is producer money not ABP money)was spent trying to open the border during the "BSE crisis" and I question if it achieved anything. Despite what ABP/CCA would have us believe the border opened exactly when the US packers (on both sides of the border) decided it was fortuitous for them to do so. COOL will only be revoked by the packers or their USDA puppets not by a bunch of Canadian cattlemen spending big money on legal fees.

[Sawbones]

All you have to do is looki to the lumber industry and despite numerous victories, markets are still at the whim of the US. We need marketing alternatives such as an EU designated plant. The government has supported these large plants and much like the clear cut forestry examples, the plants will close and move on or set the price to ensure their profit margin. The packing plant should not be the profit center but a service industry owned by the industry to process the beef in as efficient and cost effective manner as possible. As one oldtimer told me, "the only thing worse than socialism is unregulated capitalism. The greed scenario that is being played out in the States is an example of this. It has been happening for some time in our packing sector

[farmers_son]

Now to be clear, it is not fair or right to say the majority of ABP delegates support packer ownership of cattle just because your resolution did not carry the day.

You might want to try your resolution again this year given the changes in our industry.

Personally I have not seen where packer ownership bans have worked in the U.S. and question why it would be any different here. Such bans are simply not effective as there are many ways for the packers to own cattle and frankly there are producers out there who choose to sell, forward price or contract cattle to the packers. And shouldn’t that be their choice?

Really where do we get off telling a cow calf producer or backgrounder who they can or cannot sell their calves to? Why if you looked into it you may find those grassers you sold for good money last August may have been bought by a packing plant.

The line of thought that restricting packer ownership of cattle will somehow increase the market price of live fats is pretty much along the same lines of thinking as we see the Americans believing they can force the packers to bid up the price of their live cattle by shorting their live cattle supply through non tariff barriers like COOL. The problem of chronically marginal live cattle prices will not be solved that easily. My opinion only.

[grassfarmer]

This is where the debate gets interesting farmers_son
"Now to be clear, it is not fair or right to say the majority of ABP delegates support packer ownership of cattle just because your resolution did not carry the day."
Mr Butters told me that it was democracy that defeated this resolution so if that is the case the majority of the delegates present at the ABP AGM last year must have opposed the resolution hence my assertion that they support packer ownership.
There is no grey issue here - they are either for it or against it and if Mr Butters is telling us the truth about the democratic process last years results prove they are for it.

[farmers_son]

When I express my opinion that a ban on packer ownership will not work it does not mean that I support packer ownership of cattle.

It is a complex problem. I suggested you retry your resolution. There are no easy answers but more debate and giving people an opportunity to further think about and discuss the issue can never hurt. But there are no guarantees your resolution would pass because there are good points to be made on both sides of the issue.

[grassfarmer]

So what are the good points in favour of packers owning cattle? that's what I'll be fascinated to find out.