What's Age Verified worth?

[wd40]

I'd have to refelect on your last paragraph.

However let me tell you that I to sacrificed a year of my life to the point of laying all I had on the line.

Just cleared up my own BSE issue last March. Was in the service industry at the time so didn't benifit from any BSE funds.

However let me also tell you that the first thing a bunch of producers should do is load a bus and tour Kansas and USPB their value chain menbers and feeders.

We don't have to re-invent the wheel. The model is alreay a shinning light.

[smcgrath76]

We invested in a plant and a business
plan and lost our investment. That's
life and that's investing. It's just
money.
For myself, I would consider investing
again, however I have begun to ask, if
it is such a good investment for
investments' sake, shouldn't you just be
able to take the plan public and receive
financing through Bay street or the
general public? I don't see people
lining up to invest in beef processing
capacity. On the other hand, I think
there is some potential for custom kill
for a value chain, or negotiating with
an existing company such as USPB to
operate or come up with a creative plan
to run at least one of the existing
plants in Canada that is currently non
functional.
The chicken and egg, is that a market
has to exist for the beef to obtain a
premium for a producer owner, but the
beef has to exist to obtain a market.

[kato]

Which is why it makes far more sense to take a well run small operation that's already in existence and make it grow. There are more than a few of them around.

Starting from scratch is a difficult thing to do. How many people could start a farm from nothing? If they had to borrow to do it? Zero. Same thing with packing plants. How many people could take a farm that's paid off and has some equity and make it into a bigger farm? Lots of them could. Debt load and cash flow problems are killers.

What we need more than anything is for our government to get it together and restructure the inter-provincial trade regulations, inspection standards, and in general do what they can to encourage a business environment that promotes small processing rather than restricts it.

And guess what? They've already made an announcement about reviewing the inter-provincial regulations. Once we see if they make some good fixes to it, the future of producer owned facilities just may get brighter.

Just my opinion. And yes, we invested in a plant too and watched it scuttled by regulations and financing delays.

[wd40]

In response to GF - A friend who sat under the armpit of Bob Peterson (CEO of IPB now Tyson) said there average ROI after tax was 33% and that was in the 80's!
The Cargill’s of the world will not build huge facilities unless their prospectus shows capitalization in 3 to 4 yrs.
To smc: shouldn't you just be
able to take the plan public and receive
financing through Bay street or the
general public?
Good point – but I think that the only real salvation for the beef industry and to give us the unmitigated world market lead, power, and influence where needed is to…
1) the industry needs to be under its own control. Plus
2)When we have a stake in our own destiny guess where our commitment will lay.
3)Plus may I add there are huge profits as I pointed out above to the packer and when you examine the USPB model, to the producer as well. You will never get those benefits from a corporate entity. You would be surprised how many ag-producers have shares in the Cargill’s, Vitera’s and Monsanto’s of our industry.

Kato - “And yes, we invested in a plant too and watched it scuttled by regulations and financing delays”
I have numerous small meat/butcher/private kills that will talk to you for hours (literally) and tell you how the regulations are trying to kill their business. Shame on Canada and the CFIA! As long as you have the multinationals feeding the govts with the information regarding regulations it will only get worse. They want the small boys out and will never stop working to that end. One way or another!
I applaud the small successful initiatives, don’t get me wrong. However to really impact and give back the opportunity to have a vibrant industry and capitalize on the markets that are there, we have one choice, either do it big enough or capitulate to the Multi-nationals (which unfortunately includes our native Alberta boys).

[Sawbones]

It's obvious WD40 that you have the same addiction as I have
Another plant in Alberta would probably lower the basis by at least $5/cwt and that's a cash infusion into the beef sector of over $70 million/yr
As far as a business investment GF...if you were to take your TFSA (tax free savings account) and invest $10,000 in ACT (Alberta Cattleman's Trust) you could be part of a group that could lease slaughter capacity at an existing facility that would be federally inspected and EU certified with world class management. There would be a national retailer willing to enter into a long term contract for the cattle. As WD40 has stated, there could be a 33% return but as many will also state, you may be another one to add the stories of investments gone wrong.
One thing that I'm certain that WD40 would agree on is the status quo won't work.
We are looking for 200 investors at $10,000 to join with existing partners.
my email is g.etherington@hmsinet.ca and your contact will be kept confidential

[grassfarmer]

Sean that was my point exactly - if it is such a sound idea where are the Bay Street investors? I happen to know one prominent Toronto venture capitalist and I discussed this very issue with him a few years back. He told me that normally it is really easy to gather capital for anything that is "bricks and mortar" versus teckie companies for example where the idea may just be a theory on a piece of paper. As long as you can show a credible business plan to accompany the bricks and mortar plan there should be plenty capital forthcoming. Yet it seems these people are not willing to step into this fray - I suspect their business analysis of the sector with regard to competition, Government etc leads them to the same conclusion as my own.

WD40 - I think you are right that to benefit producers they must own the plan but to date every plan has gone sideways on that point - there are never enough producers willing to commit capital so it becomes a matter of raising a % of the capital and expecting Government or "investors" to come up with the majority. I don't know how to get around that problem. There just seems a lack of appetite(and/or funds)among producers to take on the risk required. As Sawbones commented a while back we are suffering from Stockholm syndrome.

[littledoggie]

One problem with producer owned packing plants is the time factor. If primary producers get involved with every other sector of the chain, whose at home looking after the cows? In my point of view, that is an incredibly important job. Whatwith the added requirements and the possibility of MORE requirements coming down the pipeline this whole business of raising cattle is going to become even more time consuming. Just think about it - age verification, traceability, On-Farm Food Safety (although voluntary at this time), biosecurity requirements, any up and coming disease control requirements, environmental issues (LUF) and what about animal welfare required by the likes of MacDonald's? Isn't all of this actually worth something? Maybe what we as primary producers should concentrate on is gaining control of our sector, because we have what THEY want. Where are the innovative entrepreneurs.........

[wd40]

BINGO - you got my point take back control