what will happen to farmers

[Junebug]

These questions are directed mainly to ianben, as you seem to have experience with BSE in the UK. but anyone who has experienced BSE in their farming career, I'd like your input.
I am wondering what our destiny as farmers could be.
What happened to the family farms after BSE in the U.K. or any other country for that matter. Did they become government or bank owned? Did it turn into corporate farms. (govenerment owned) If you don't eat any beef under 30 months of age, what happens to the cow? She becomes totally worthless ?
In Alberta, EVERYTHING you need to run a farm has gone up in price over the pasted year. (over all by alot of dollars.) How does a person pay the bills when you need 750.00 from your calf just to break even and cattle prices are in the bottom of the barrel and open cows and bulls are worthless ???.
(750.00 are agri-specialists #s which were exactly what we had calculated it to be)

I have really missed what the giant panic is over BSE. Its not contagious. Your chances of getting it are sooooo slim,you'd have a better chance of winning the lottery twice. We are losing people every day to CANCER, Heart disease, Amsa, Diabetes, the common flu !!!!!!!!!!! Is it, that we deal with these diseases all the time so its just part of life) What the H--- is so over powering about BSE. except that maybe we don't know enough about it. If it comes from feed source, then band the use of brain and spinal or dead animal tissue (such as sheep)used as a feed additive. I am so concerned that all these years of VERY Hard work is going to be for next to nothing. (The life style won't have been worth it)

[cakadu]

Junebug, you raise some very interesting points. How can someone be expected to make ends meet when they need to get so much from each calf, let alone the cow? How can we as producers keep getting told to increase our production, when we cannot sell all that we produce now - the lone BSE cow notwithstanding?

There have been efforts in recent years to look for new markets for our beef, and we need to keep pursuing those, although from my perspective, we need to look more at what we should be giving a customer versus what we want to sell them. Make no bones about it, the beef business is a commodity business and to a certain extent putting beef in a box is NOT value-adding it if it is not being cut to the specifications of a particular customer. Putting the beef in a box and trying to sell it to someone is trying to move a commodity - in my opinion.

We need to seriously consider - and hopefully find the leadership - to drive removing all animal renderings from feedstuffs going to animals that will eventually move into the human food chain. We need to get strict and get strict fast. Incidentally, to my knowledge there was never a link between scrapie (sheep and goats) and BSE or vCJD.

The real value that a cow/calf producer has been realizing from his operation has on average been declining for some time now. Margins at feedlots have been razor thin and I would think non-existant now.

What can we do to change this? It's not just a shift with producers, but all the way through the system. Question is, has what is currently happening been enough of an eye-opener to get people throughout the system from field to fork to change their ways?

[15444]

We as producers have to find ways in which to cut the middle man totally out of the entire beef business. Two weeks ago, carcasses were being sold off the rail at $85 hundred weight. That same week, Safeway had lean ground beef at $1.99/lb. and t-bone steaks at just under $7.00/lb. This is ridiculous! The retailers are laughing all the way to the bank at our expense and the consumer's too. If the ban isn't lifted by next summer, I for one will give our local Safeway a run for it's money. Even at $1.00/lb for hamburger, $2.00 for roasts and $3.00 for steak, I could still make a killer price over sending them through the regular Canadian cattle feeding system and slit Safeway's throat at the same time. I can see a price of $3-3.50 for steak being reasonable in the store....but $6-7 is just plain robbery! Especially in these times in the cattle industry.

[rusty1]

Wind Fall profits are not only at the retail sector. Our beloved packing industry has the eviable position of being in the middle. They can rob and pilfer from the producer while holding the retail trade for ransom.
You're right about the producer needing to get into the business. There is enough "packer discounts" taken off the feeding industry in one year (probably $50 mill) to build our own packing house. I bet that if we got close to doing it one of the 2 giants here would sell out, and run all the way back over the 49th.
At least 2 of our packers had attempted to hold a floor price of $50.oo cwt to $5, but the other didn't even entertain the thought. No we are seeing prices way lower than that.

[grassfarmer]

Junebug - having lived through this in the UK before moving to Alberta I hope I can shed some light on post BSE situation. Life goes on - family farms survive but they need to become more efficient to survive. The normal evolution of reduced margins and greater efficiency keeps the majority in business while the weaker businesses get out. The Government doesn't take over farms and corporate farming doesn't take over although Bank loans did increase substantially. Government compensation is paid on over 30 month cattle - introduced March 1996 and still running at huge cost to taxpayer. Initially this was at a high level(ie above the rate cull cows were making pre-BSE due to the Gov. have no clue about prevailing prices)This has been gradually reduced until farmers wish they could sell cull cows on the open beef market again. This will happen from 1st January next year I believe. The whole fuss over BSE is crazy - in Europe around 130 people have died of vCJD in a decade (the type that is possibly linked to eating BSE tainted beef) Ordinary human CJD which has always existed kills around 80 people PER YEAR in the UK alone.
In Canada we have a lot of factors in our favour. One big advantage here is consumer confidence is not affected - in the UK beef consumption dropped 70% overnight. Also here we don't have the huge numbers of BSE cases the UK had. The lasting affect in the UK has been that our beef industry that used to feed the domestic market and export high quality beef to mainland Europe is now around 70% self sufficient in beef and has zero exports.
With regard to the later comments about packers/retailers profiteering that has been a big problem in the UK. As the Government attempts to move away from direct production subsidies to appease world trade agreements it has introduced new subsidies paid to farmers - each time it does the packers, under pressure from retailers drop bids on fat cattle to the value of the new subsidy. The farmer,does the extra paperwork,sells his cattle for less money, picks up the subsidy which keeps his income the same, the packer/retailer get cheaper cattle which they sell to the consumer at ever higher prices and pocket the proceeds. The farmer survives but is more dependant on handouts, packer/retailers profit and the consumer complains about the price of beef and reduces consumption.

[Junebug]

graasfarmer
I totally agree with what you said about others profitting from the subsidies that farmers get. The ferlizer program (many yrs. ago) is a perfect example. The ferlizer companies put their price up the exact amount the subsidy was worth. The packers are going to do the same kind of thing. The Farmer won't benefit nor will the consumer. The farmer gets shafted at every corner. The farmer is just too eager and willing to work for little. I have an a business. And the profit margin of the business and the farm don't even begin to compare. Who needs to go to Vegas when you own a farm.

[carebear300]

I don't know after thirty years of getting more efficient and productive. I have to work twice as hard to make half as much. Does that sound like progress to you? We have been all brainwashed by agri business and government bureaucrats to proceed this way. Everybody else seems to make the big bucks out of what we produce!!! I wonder if the day will come that they can't find any of us crazy fools to produce farm products for so little money. If it does come to that society will finally realize how good a thing they had with us farmers producing a top quality product for very little money. Somebody will have to produce it or the rest of the businesses that live off the farmer will cease to exist.

[ianben]

Hi Junebug been harvesting barley and canola.
Grassfarmer just about filled you in on life after BSE. Prices have never recovered to pre 96 levels but consumption has supposedly recently overtaken 96 level.

Blame has been laid at supermarkets packers etc. but farmers should have taken stock realised that not selling for three months/year would stack up supplies in an cycle which is at least three years.
Cattle where taken to heavier weights more beef from the same animals. This must be happening today in Canada. Blaming others for making a profit is not a solution. Cheap beef in supermarkets will only wreck poultry and pork sales fill freezers and lower prices further.
The only solution is to reduce supply by government or individual means.
Over confidence by other farmers that everything would soon be back to normal lead me to just about quit beef and diversify out of agriculture.
Having 25million none farming neighbours does give some opertunities!!!!

[cakadu]

Ianben, your comment about the disposal of animals is being given as the worst case scenario here if the borders do not open soon. We are fast approaching that time of year when early calves go to market, only this time, there is no market for them to go to. Some fairly significant numbers are being given at this point in time.

Domestically, we cannot eat our way out of this problem and what do we do with all the culled animals?

Alberta has been hit with patchy rain and there are many areas that are getting dry again, mine included - which is west Central Alberta. If that isn't bad enough the grasshoppers are thick and we don't normally see anywhere near this many out here. We aren't all that far away from the mountains - maybe 100 miles or so as the crow flies - so we tend not to have too much trouble with these sorts of pests.

The hay crops have not been bad and certainly anything is better than what we went through last year and the amount of hay available. While there is more hay, the volume just hasn't been there.

If this cull goes through, there might be more feed than we know what to do with and then hay and feed grains will suffer too.

What are the options? What can be done to hang on and change things so that there are brighter days once again?