What to Hell Happened to Alberta

[ASRG]

sean: uh....ABP...really? Do you really think they will oppose this?

[forage]

Per Where in pincher creek and what time and what Board , I am assuming it is wsg.
I have contacted over 45 friends and relatives on this Bill 2 and 90% were unaware ,well kept secret. It takes at least 5 to 10 minutes to explain extactly what is all about but it is like a pyramid scheme you ask them to get in contact with their neightbors,friends etc and have them contact their MLA's . The only problem being is most of mlas in southern and central are against this powerhouse bill. So you are talking to the converted. I only wonder it the PC govenment reads any of our posting? Only if there are key words like REDFORD what to hell are you doing to property rights, Redford have you sold your soul to agenda 21. Well must get out and move some heifers arround.

[rkaiser]

There are some philosophical issues in this thread that I simply could not ignore.

Have mass demonstrations ever truly worked to steer democracy in the past or even now. Has anyone even heard about the 2000 young people arrested in Rome a couple of days ago. We like to compare froward movement in other countries to what we "could" be doing at home. And if the masses are not behind this action ---- "it is their fault?"

Don't get me wrong, I have tried the leadership approach from a revolutionary standpoint myself. Has it worked? Not really. Has it worked for America to stand up against tyranny and horrendous belief systems? Not really. Fighting anything with "war" seems to have a temporary affect, however long term stable change usually comes from positive forward action. I think that names like Nelson Mandela and Ghandi represent long term, sustainable, conscious change better than Castro, Che Guevara, or any of the European revolutionaries that may be seen as heroes.

There is action that can be taken by each of us so called revolutionaries, however taking the approach of blaming inaction on those with not quite so much "bravery" will get us no where.

Congrats on the marriage forage - it will be whatever you continue to believe it will be.... Each of mine have been.

[per]

Yes Forage the WSGA board meeting will be on Monday at the Golf Coarse in Pincher. Details are being finalized this week but you would be welcome. Boring board stuff at 3 supper and community meeting after supper. You would be welcome to join us at any time. There are also other parallel things going on like the Land Use meetings which we have certainly participated. We have read several law reviews and met with several MLA's separately as well in Vulcan with the minister. In order to affect change we need to first have a full understanding of everything this involves. We welcome you input and continue to cooperate with many of the other groups you mentioned. Give me a call if you like later in the week and I will give you firm details on the meeting or call our office.

[smcgrath76]

ASRG - I don't believe ABP will work on this issue too hard, but a lot of
producers will likely believe that they are and feel no need for further action.
There are a lot of land/energy/environmental issues on the agenda right now in AB
and they are pretty volatile. The secretive approach to developing and passing
legislation is working pretty well for this government, so I doubt that they will
change it much in the next several years. It will be a horse that is hard to put
back in the barn once it is done.
I think at this point the best thing a lot of us can do is make sure
friends/neighbours are aware of Bill 2 and what is going on, at least to the point
of helping them to seek out more information. The SSW item is a huge one, and I
think they are hoping it will follow the track of the Athabasca. The NSW will
then just have to fall in line...
I honestly believe most Albertans are moderates (despite what we say) and the
militant approach may be counterproductive in those who choose not to be informed
so far. Randy might be right on this one.

[ASRG]

Sean: I agree 100% with your approach.....and have been preaching it as much as possible within our group.
I have zero use for the ABP....I respect some of the people within that group...but believe they have been duped.
I really admire the "fire" in young guys like forage.....it gives me hope everything we do is not in vain!

[forage]

I won't hold my breath waiting and waiting for ABP to speak up. The president has already been approached and it is a wait and see attitude. Don't know how many times you have to hit him over the head with a slege hammer before he would actually wake up. The real answer was we have to review the Bill but it well take some time as we are so busy at the moment. The moments keep ticking by every time there is a serious issue that is going to impact property owners , I believe they are still digesting what happened to the manatory check off.

[grassfarmer]

Oh Randy - how little history is known in the New
World. Lets try some recent stuff so that you don't
have to dig too deep in the old grey matter.
What about the people power protests of the early
80s in Europe that convinced Governments to quit
their nuclear proliferation policies which in turn
turned the tide and brought the cold war to an end.
Tell the 250,000 that rallied in London, 400,000 in
Amsterdam and 500,000 in the Hague that they didn't
achieve anything.
Tell the handful of brave souls that backed Lech
Walesa in the shipyard in Gdansk against the
communist Government of Poland that their protest
wouldn't achieve anything when it in fact was the
instigator of a wider people power movement that
eventually brought down the iron curtain and saw the
Berlin wall fall.

"He who forgets history is doomed to repeat it'
George Santayana

[rkaiser]

Ah yes grasshopp--- I mean grassfarmer...LOL History???? HMM...

Cold war is over and there is now no chance of a nuclear holocaust hey. I am not quite sure why the Rockefeller's and the Rothschild's decided to hold things up at the time you are speaking about, ---- maybe a little too unpredictable, ---- could have got caught in the crossfire???...

I am not suggesting that those 200 or 400 or 500,000 European protesters rallied in vain buddy. However, if you believe they did some good, do you really think that they were all called a bunch of useless apathetics; and that is why they turned out in force...LOL

Heard a rather tasteless one today that may apply to this thread.

Two Palestinian women were having a coffee.... One brought out pictures of her dead "martyred" sons. One 26 years old, one 24, and one 22. The other lady brought out her pictures, one 20 and one 18. The first woman sighed and said' "Ahh - they blow up so young these days".

I guess it's all about "how" we choose to fight..........

[grassfarmer]

Your question was:

"Have mass demonstrations ever truly worked to
steer democracy in the past or even now"

I provided some examples to prove that yes indeed
they have worked all through history.

[forage]

Randy don't get side tracked with history if we let this Bill 2 slide by our children and grand children well be coming to the old folks lodge and asking us what were you thinking letting this go into law with out a fight. We well be part of history as the dumbest asses ever. Question ,just how many people in your neck of woods have even heard about Bill 2 . I was amazed that the calls I have made to friends the number that really didn't have much awareness.This has glided under the radar without the public being ill informed.

[ASRG]

forage: Don't forget they only revealed this bill two weeks ago. The actual rules and regulations haven't even been written......or so they tell us!
The Environment Minister Dianna McQueen has stood up several times during debate and stated "landowners were fully consulted and were in full agreement"!
To see what that consultation involved visit our website www.albertasurfacerights.com

[SADIE]

Watching your province and the concerns with BILL 2.

Read your story on "consultation with landowners". This approach is used quite often and run into it steady with the Energy Company workshops like Enbridge Consultation with landowners or the national Energy Board's workshop and consultation with landowners when they are dealing with abandonment of pipelines.

Just a question ASRG. Was the facilitator at your meeting a Kerry Brown?? I have seen a couple of meetings now one in Calgary and one in Edmonton and this same type of facilitor shows up.

Starting a new post this morning and bringing more awareness of the new blog.

"PIPELINE OBSERVER"----it has some great updated articles with Keith Wilson on Bill 2, Bentley Alberta Landowners challanging a major pipeline project.

[ASRG]

Sadie:I'm not sure who she was. During the "Alberta Property Rights Task force" I got to know one of the facilitators and she told me she was on contract at $1500/day....pretty good work if you can get it!
I'll be sure to check out the pipeline blog. Good luck on the pipeline removal thing.