If this on the up & up?

[ALLFARMER]

I have some brush piles that have been burning
for a month now. It appears the coyotes & wolves
are using the piles as a camp fire to keep warm
by.

So environmentally speaking is this good or bad?

A nice crisp -30 her today. Log haul starting early
this year. Major logging going to go on this winter
for a change.

[forage]

Allfarmer noticed you didn't have any comments on losing all your rights on Bill to busy watching coyotes I suppose. Are you northern boys really not interested in what the government is taking away from you. Maybe all that smoke from your brush fires has put up a smoke screen from reality.

[ALLFARMER]

I took a 2 yr land agent program at Olds College
Lived in Calgary one summer and did the crown
sales for Pioneer Land Services. Been up and
down all the fancy glass towers.

Land owners / farmers had no real rights then...
nearing 20 years ago.

Land agents are paid by contract, they dont get
leases signed they won't be working. So basically
lie and make promises to the land owner say what
ever it takes to get it signed. After a couple
weeks of field work in Drayton Valley I walked
away from that career.

There is zero oilfield work in this area and I like it
that way. Oilfield is number one in AB and it will
always be that way. Everything else in Gov view
is secondary.

[per]

Semantics I suppose, call them what ever you want rights, privileges, re-courses, we had some ability to affect the outcome where our property was concerned including many that belonged or were part and parcel with a suite of statutory consents which can stack up to actually be a part of the value of property like a permit to operate some sort of business or a water licence. These things were severely eroded with ALSA and appear to be further eroded with Bill 2. Of course it isn't over until it's over and if we don't care about or ignore what is coming at us we do that at our own peril.

[ALLFARMER]

In this area ....no rail lines....no power
transmission lines...no pipelines....no oil
wells.....no brand inspectors....very seldom do you
see a police car...just this year we have a DOT
officer but he likely won't stay more than a year.
People leave their keys in their vehicles even in
town.

Alberta's last frontier

[ASRG]

I think we all knew Bill 2 was going to pass. It was kind of disheartening that Ken Hughes didn't allow even one amendment that would have given us a bit of hope.

Danielle Smith and Joe Anglin met with CAPP and SEPAC last week to see if they would modify the bill enough to protect landowners....they refused.....said Bill 2 was exactly what they wanted!
The opposition fought the good fight, took it as far as they could. That's what we asked them to do.

Sean is right. The rules and regulations aren't written yet (or so they say), and yes they can be changed or modified on the whim of the cabinet.
SRD Minister McQueen has already indicated the Surface Rights Act will be opened up in the spring session of the legislature. That will be when the "other shoe drops"!

So far there isn't any outrage. The general population doesn't see any thing wrong with this bill and the vast majority of the farmers and ranchers haven't picked up on what this will mean for them. Maybe they just feel there isn't anything they can do.....like you can't fight city hall sort of deal!

The only way to fight this sort of stuff is make it more trouble than it is worth....for both the companies who wrote the bill and the politicians who pushed it through!
Do farmers and ranchers have that kind of will anymore? Time will tell.

[forage]

Allfarmer The smoke has not only fogged your sight but your brain. You are living in a dream world if you think oil and gas development won't come your way. Food for thought , or should I say oil for thought as you quoted is no. one. The reason we have no rights is well explained in your posting. Do nothing to prevent it. You were trained well in your land agent course,brain washed you enough to make you think the way you do. I really have to ask,if landowners didn't have any rights 20 years why would you want to buy land and have no rights? We are fighting like hell for what rights we have and don't get any support from all you X landmen, sure hope they don't set up a massive shale drilling sight 100 meters from your homestead and you find out you cann't do a damn thing about it.Maybe just maybe you well wake up and smell the coffee and realize maybe you should have got involved. Oh, forgot you cann't smell the coffee for the smoke.

[SADIE]

Allfarmer--I am glad you revealed your experience of the training at Olds College and the land agents course.

When the Enbridge Alberta Clipper was being proposed and the CAEPLA movement from Ontario came west and showed us how to change negotiations on any linear project landowners eyes got opened. CAEPLA taught landowners how to work together and disallow the corrupt landagents of getting to us on a "ONE TO ONE" basis---DIVIDE AND CONQUER. During that time as a volunteer President of SAPL I took the intensive landagents course from Old's college, I know this is in Sask but on NEB regulated lines you can coach and offer advise to all landowners. The corrupt tactics I learnt taking the Land agents course helps me every day when I communicate with the NATIONAL ENERGY BOARD---(who is basically another form of corrupt land agents) and the land men from these Group 1 Energy Companies.

The army of awareness is large now. CAEPLA will continue to work within AlBerta along any new proposed linear project. Linear projects of power lines are happening in Sask as well and landowners are hearing the success story of working together and catching on to the technique.

There are alot of frustrated land agents in the countryside now.

[ASRG]

I too took the land agent course at Olds college....although I was not the instructors favorite pupil! I was quite disgusted with the overt oil company bias displayed by the instructor and had no problem telling him so! I like to think I planted a few seeds of integrity in my fellow students!
No one should be fooled about who wrote Bill 2? Ken Hughes DID NOT write Bill 2.......it was written by CAPP. Ken Hughes is only the salesman.
Bill 2 throws the "rule of law" under the bus for the greed of the oil companies. Shameful!

[smcgrath76]

In my mind one of the big drivers for this long term is Shallow gas. By streamlining things, opening up/adapting surface
rights, and working through the other land stewardship bills we can basically guarantee a long term assault on water with
no recourse when the price of gas comes up. Get prepared to light your kitchen tap.
I have a problem with giving rights away (especially surface rights) when I am the one paying for the surface. It is
different if I were not the owner. I am not that keen on what in essence becomes a forced sale if an energy company (or
utility, or other) comes along and wants to use/abuse my surface with no recourse. Of course we can argue about the
public good, for example land has been sequestered around the cities in AB, and for transportation corridors, and other
public use. This has usually involved a long and serious negotiation, although admittedly not everyone is happy with the
outcome of these events. This time around is different because it is for private use. Basically I think the argument is
summed up as the public benefits from the trickle down impact of the oil industry and public tax collection, and we can't
stop that "public" benefit. Make no mistake though this is very much about private industry and making a powerplay.
I would readily argue that my ability as a landowner to provide food, habitat, clean air and water, etc. has a far more
powerful/direct public benefit than an oil well does, but at this point in time I can't argue that the GDP or tax dollars
it produces is as great as our holy fathers in downtown Cowtown.

[SADIE]

ASRG---I agree with you about not being the instructors favorite pupil. Do you think I was-----NOT.

I compliment ASRG on all your posts on this thread and about the property rights bills that you Albertans face. Now Bill 2.

We have lots of our own problems in in Sask but hopefully the landowners resistance movement to protect property rights in Alberta keeps growing by all the modern forms of movement. Twitter, Social media.

The awareness you people raise in Alberta---the movement for landowners has to begin in Alberta first before there is any chance of a spin-over to other provinces.

[forage]

Another land agent expresses his or her concerns ,just how many land agents are on this site ? Sorry for the rants but I really cann't believe just how invasive this Bill 2 really is and that is why it really hasn't been out in the public for people to actually know what to hell is really going on. I wish hughes would come to my neighborhood and explain just how good this bill is for farmers and ranchers. Notice he stated he would come to rural communities and tell us but isn't it a little late after they pass the Bill.

[ASRG]

Whoa....forage! I said I took the land agents course....I never worked at it! And while I have helped lots of landowners negotiate deals I have NEVER charged anyone one red cent....in fact I have always refused money when offered. Furthermore I paid for my own tuition and books!
I'm not some kind of saint. I have strong beliefs in freedom and rights. It is the reason I am involved in property rights and the Wildrose party. I spent some serious time and money working to get my WRP candidate elected.
A good portion of my income comes from oil and gas, through both surface and mineral rights......but my heart is with crops and livestock!

[SADIE]

I too took the land agents course only to protect myself. I paid for it at my own expense and again I never have charged anything for information when asked by another landowner.

It sure helps to understand terms like:

1)Keeping "landowner whole".

2)Pattern of dealing---

3)Quiet enjoyment of the surface of the land.

Once you understand the tactics used by land agents in trying to obtain a landowners signature you can turn that around and use it against them or the energy company and help other landowners along the way.

The course and experience also helps one understand how the regulator in this case THE NATIONAL ENERGY BOARD operates.

Like posted earlier. Having the privilege to work with the CAEPLA group on a volunteer basis I have experienced how corruption of governments work at both the federal and provincial levels.

An experience of working with the media also has been a benefit as well.

[forage]

ASRG I stated another land agent expresses their concerns and indeed they should. The olds college has turned out alot of land agents year after year the main theme that landowners are nothing but a greedy ,mindless group who deserve to be lied to and screwed for their greed. There is a well known saying among the practicing land agents that farmers are like *****s they well do anything for a dollar. We need more rural people like you and Sadie to take this propaganda course to educate the rest just how bad it is and when find out just how much money the Encana's of world donate to this course every year no wonder the profs are teaching the mind set of the oil and gas sector is the almighty