hot cow market

[jensend]

note i said the average cow raises four calves not has four calves. lots of guys keep a cow whose calf was taken by predators or drowned in the slough or whatever. her revenue for that year is zero and the costs keep on rolling. some cows will give you ten calves and some won't catch after their first calf so you're at 5.5 there and she still has to raise them.

[ASRG]

I guess I would say there are so many variables, it is a bit like gazing into a crystal ball and seeing pretty well what ever you want to see?
How do you put a salvage value on a cow? A lot of $1200 cows bought in 2001.....turned into $600 cows in 2002......and $300(or less)cows in 2003!
How do you put a value on future calf prices? Again take a look at the past?

How can you accurately predict your costs? In 2009 feed costs at least doubled!
Is $1700 too much for a cow? It is for me, but obviously it wasn't for someone else!

[forage]

The answer that has worked well for me was to start with buying reputation cows 3 to 4th calvers from producers who have been in the business for more years than you can count.We have many local ranches that have been arround for 3 or 4 generations. Don't go trying to buy your entire herd at once, pick out half a dozen good scoring cows from each one of these producers for a fair and reasonable price. Keep all the best heifers and build from there, that way you know the temperment and the gentics that well be bred into your herd. I never preg test first calvers to many problems associated with it unless you can afford ultrasound. Let a bull determine whats open. Buying all these high priced heifers at auction sales is like buying a pig in a poke and you don't know the first thing about them unless you know the producer and they weren't package from 10 or 20 different herds as last years calf sales.

[grassfarmer]

How many multi-generational operations sell choice
of their 3rd/4th calvers out of their home raised
multi-year programs? Only place I've seen this type
of cow sold is at a dispersal.

[SADIE]

GF---Correct. I preg-checked for many years at Veteran, Cereal, Provost auction markets.

[forage]

Sadie , I have never had any problems approaching the ranches in my area, alot are very proud of their herds and more than honoured that I have choosen their breeding program. I am not talking buying large volumes as I stated only 5 or 6 from each ranch that has the breed I want. I am not afforded with the time to sit at auction sales with everybody with the same mind set of buying dispersal cattle. The cows are always bid way over the true value.
Of course the limiting factor is cash available at time, have only been able to buy a 10 or 12 a year so it has a been a slow process. I remember my Grandfather always saying if you cann't pay cash for a cow you shouldn't own it.

[forage]

Sorry the last thread was to GF not Sadie

[grassfarmer]

So are you talking purebred or commercial cows?

[forage]

GF Commerical cows Red Angus cross Semi. Trying to build on that cross. Slow process but I am backgrounding all my heifers every year and taking only best 25 or 30 for replacements. Most of my cow herd is now being replaced from my own program but I am always on the hunt for cows from other ranches with the same cross. There was a posting here about dispersal sales, just a side note a friend of mine from Rocky area has a neighbor who has a dispersal every two years at either Red Deer or Innisfail auction marts. Just a game but if you know of a old time ranch that is really getting all their herd maybe ,just maybe you can find good replacements but you have to stand in line with multiple buyers with their hand in the air. Paying a local ranch a few extra dollars to me elimenates the hassles at the auction and the exposure to any disease problems.

[grassfarmer]

forage, setting the purchase debate aside for a
moment I think you have a problem with your
breeding strategy. F1s can't replace themselves - they
make fantastic commercial cows but they can only
breed down, not up.