Cost of keeping a cow?

[ASRG]

What are your costs and what do you need off that calf to make it work?
What are your winter feed costs? Do you feed 110 days or 220 days? What are your equipment costs to feed cows (fuel, maitenance, repairs, depreciation & interest, elec/heat).
What are your pasture costs? Including fence/repair, checking cows, salt & min, lost opportunity if suitable for grain.
Breeding costs and vet costs?
Interest and depreciation on cows?
Labour?
Trucking and selling costs?
What do you need per calf? Consider dead calves and opens in this mix?

[smcgrath76]

Big question, with an it depends...
On a typical year putting up all our own feed on our cow/calf enterprise we are running per cow...
$35 - Interest
$27 - Diesel
$40 - Parts
$50 - breeding
$12 - Mineral
$31 - Health (two vaccinations x 2 times per calf Express on cow)
$50 - Rent (land we don't own)
$10 - Seed (for swath grazing)
$40 - Labour
Then we have a portion of power/gas/gasoline and depreciation expense.
This works out around another $100 to $150 per cow. If we consider it $150 then we are at about
$445 per cow for our C/C enterprise. It will vary some as I say. I think I pulled all the
relevant columns out of my system here.
Our winter feeding (if you call it that) can vary from $0.25 per day up to nearly $0.75 (labour
and mineral included) and is somewhat weather dependant/variable. I also expect that one year we
will have a complete and total tractor crap out and my machinery cost will rise a bit
(depreciation). As well, our business structure is changing so that will rearrange a few things
as well going forward.
These costs don't include our backgrounding enterprise which starts post-weaning and has a bit
higher cost per head due to losses, a touch more labour, different feeding system, etc.
We participate in Agri-Profits here and it really breaks our costs out in a well defined and
orderly way, and doesn't let us skimp to make ourselves feel good. I track every bale of feed and
where it goes and also our labour time and type of tasks.

[grassfarmer]

I've looked at the Agri-Profits a couple of times but
am put off by the volume of work it entails on my part
- only to discover that my figures will be calculated as
if I was selling weaned calves because it's too
complicated to do a whole picture of the other stuff
we do (retailing beef, selling breeding stock, custom
grazing/feeding in exchange for some labor etc) I'm
not interested in getting a false picture of what I do
so I'll continue to do my own record keeping.

[smcgrath76]

GF - that's why I like it, because it
spells out which sector is profitable, and
whether I should be doing all the other
value added stuff, but you do have a
point. I charge my time prepping against
the cow herd as labour, but it takes less
time each year as I get better at it.

[ASRG]

Sean: I wonder what kind of cost you charge your cows on the land you own?
For example: land you own used for either grazing or feed production? How much extra could you get if you had that land in a rotation/crop production?
Also....do you depreciate your cow? Example: bred heifer costs $1200....7 years later she sells for $950? 6 calves have an added cost of $40 calf?
Not trying to be controversial here but:
If I have 1000 acres and I can get $80/acre rent ($80K), or I can have 250 cows and gross $200K........but it costs me $125K to raise them ($500x200)....what am I getting paid for my time and labour? Wouldn't I be better off greeting people at Walmart?

Are we paying good money to feed people?

Again I'm not trying to be controversial......just trying to get people to think about things.

[smcgrath76]

ASRG - I knew this thread would go that way. The "opportunity cost" is not my true operating cost. It is a cost I
need to consider when looking at the economics of doing things, but not as far as the business/cash flow portion of
paying my bills and myself. The cash cost if I were to rent out the land to grain farm the operation (not possible
on our land base) is just the interest on our mortgage, same as it is with cows.
We are not the least bit interested in doing that here, so I would argue that I don't have an opportunity cost, as I
don't want to partake of another opportunity. We work on either cutting costs or adding value to the enterprises we
have chosen.
Truth be told, the best return per acre around here would be oil wells and acreages and neither of these appeal to me
either. We do assess Opp Cost as far as other grazing enterprises (custom grazing, etc) are concerned, but the cows
do OK in that context.
One issue with renting can be the hidden cost of ecosystem degradation. It can take a long time to recover that
loss.

[forage]

I well leave it to great thinkers on this post. To many points to consider from everyone. I quess I am the only one doing it the old fashion way, add up all my expenses at the end of year,subrtact the cattle revenue and hope to hell I see black ink. Fortunate to have a off farm income to keep the wolf away from door and try to expand with cash in hand for additional land and equipment that is not new but in relatively good shape. I tried the borrowing to buy land when I first started and the only one making any money was the bank. Once I got the loan paid off I swore I would not do it again. ASRG you must stay awake at night trying to think of ways to keep me up all night thinking of all these question you are asking.

[15444]

Your not alone forage. I've figured the individual costs before and between years there can be so much variation, it takes a fair amount of time to figure out dollars and cents costs for a specific week/month/year - not just throwing out rounded figures to the wind.

As long as your money ahead, your doing good.

I figure if I can keep my costs even, or reduce them every-year, I'm doing good. Case in point. My twine is $31.00 a spool (solar degradable plastic). In August (after haying) I found a place selling the same spool for $26.00. So I should go from about $1.00 a bale to 84 cents a bale next year.

One of my buddies runs 60 cows, no off-farm income. Had a ag-accountant specialist come in and figure out his numbers during the BSE years. He was making $76.85 a day/ about $330 a cow(based on a 40 hour week-after expenses) - he didn't think he was doing very well. Accountant left his place in amazement. Said he had done the books for 100's of beef guys in Manitoba (with off-farm jobs) that were losing $300 a cow a year, and couldn't care less because that was what the off-farm job was for.

[ASRG]

Sean: I can understand that attitude.
We all chose this business and of course you are right, the best way is to be as efficient as possible within the parameters of that business. I mean if we wanted to be really rich, we'd be selling cocaine or something...but it might not be in our best interests in the long run!
I am coming at it from a different side because I am entering the "leaving the business phase".....a business I have enjoyed....but we all get old and retire someday.
There always has been more profitable uses for our time, labour, and assets than cattle....but like I said....we chose to do this thing?
I like your attitude of knowing your costs and working toward efficient cattle and an efficient cattle operation. That has always been the formula to success in this business.

forage: Keep your nose to the grindstone. You have the right attitude towards debt! Concentrate on raising efficient cattle and taking care of your land and you'll do okay.

[forage]

Take a good hard look at the new fuel cost. Got email from home Friday about filling tanks before Sat at midnight as the price is going up 3 to 4 cents a litre. What I cann't fiqure out is why when the price of oil is actually down.Where are we going when it breaks a 100 dollars a barrel?

[smcgrath76]

Forage - you are right on there. We have
worked pretty hard at trying to drive fuel
use out of our business as much as
possible. We haven't saved as much as we
had hoped the last few years as the price
has stayed down, but I think it is going
to go up long term. I know some folks
that must spend an awful pile per cow on
diesel fuel...

[ALLFARMER]

Forage that's the way we run the books here.

I have lost money every year farming.....on paper.
Yet at the same time have a farm worth over 2
and a net worth well past 1

Some times the time your spending counting
pennies your loosing dollars.

[grassfarmer]

Wow, that's scary Allfarmer if I understand you
correctly - you have a debt load of several hundred
thousand dollars on a 120 cow operation? If that's
basing your farms worth on speculative land values
that could go sideways in a hurry if interest rates rise
or land values drop.

[bucket]

SF3

What was your high tech methodology that you used to come to that conclusion in July?

Its funny that we dumbshit farmers can banter on agriville and come to those conclusions by looking at our crops and noticing aster yellows, disease, flower blasting, and a wind storm but it doesn't mean shit unless some university grad making calls in Novemeber at supper time asking what is the numbers for the farm. Then its official.

This number may get smaller yet as statscan will have a tough time finding the usual half million tonnes in June or July 2013.

13.3 mmt for 2012 and lower acres for 2013. All things considered I think 2013 production will barely make 13.5 mmt.

[ASRG]

I've put this out here before (usually get abused for it!).....but will again.

For easy figuring I'll base this on 100 cows.

100 cows produce 94 calves (6% loss-opens/dead calves)
47 strs. X 600 lb X $1.42= $40,044
47 hfrs X 570 lb X $1.30 = $34,827
avg gross on 100 cows =$74,871 ($748/cow)

Costs:
winter feed/bedding- 200 days X $1.40 = $280 $20 bedding = $300
pasture-165 days X $1 = $165
machinery cost to feed $20
TOTAL FEED/bedding= $485

Salt and min $20
fence/corral repair $15
breeding $35
vet/ID $20
selling costs/trucking $25
Int on $1400 cow/year (3.5%)= $49
Depreciation on cow ($1400-salvage $1150-over 9 calves)=$39
cow death loss 1.5% = $21
TOTAL COST/cow $709

NET/cow ($748-$709)= $39

On the 100 cows $3900. On 300 cows=$11,700.

Walmart greeter $10/hr X 40 hr =$400 X 50 wks= $20,000.