Anybody see this?

[ValueChainFX]

LOL, right you are rusty1 ... The producer owned plants are coming on strong. It is probably a little early to say they are being totally successful yet, but so far they are looking pretty good.

You must keep in mind though these reports (of the plants doing well) are coming from the groups that set them up and it will be nice when we can see more comments from those that use them (the producer). On paper they all look good and I believe they are the way to go.

I am thinking that judging from behind the scene comments of people on the front lines scattered throughout our own federal and provincial governments. They are also looking at ways we can increase kill and fabrication capacity (outside the big guys) without ticking them off!

[rusty1]

I was thinking after I hit send with my last comment about "Single Desk Selling" that Sask. cow calf producers basically already have "Single Desk Selling" in the auction mart system.

[cakadu]

In order for your supply management scheme to work, you can supply the domestic market only. There are very limited exports - the dairy guys just got shot down. Depending on when you ask, the broiler people do well, but not all the time - last summer I believe that they were hurting a little because prices were down. I recall someone jokingly telling me not to drive into a chicken producers yard because they'd stick them in the trunk.

There is always a downside - we generally hear about the "good" side of supply management. Even they are downsizing and I know that the dairy guys have said that they expect to see many of the smaller guys go by the wayside, ironic since it was the small farm it was supposed to save.

There are NO marketing options in the supply managed systems and entry is very limited as well and innovation is almost unheard of. Yes, I guess if you don't mind being told when to sell and for how much, it would be a good system.

[ValueChainFX]

Supply management by itself is not something we want to see. There are some markets that have room for controlled production (this means that certain rules of production will need to be tracked and documented). These controls will soon (I'm sure) be part of the regulations for exports.

A combination of marketing methods allowing the producers a choice is something I see working best for producers. I don't think you are going to find any solutions to our Canadian marketing challenges in "Marketing 101" in fact marketers are finding it hard to come up with any overall solutions but draw on small pockets of their skill sets that can best serve their own narrowed down market segment.

Canadian consumers have increased their consumption of beef products more than any other time in history. They have a greater awareness of beef and the challenges the producers have than in any time in history. The foundation has been set for a positive Canadian marketing program! This is a great advantage if we can pull it together enough to gain back some of the faith and trust that has seemed to be lost in the last few years (maybe 10???).

This promotion has come mainly from producers, but other groups have come to the aid of the agriculture community across Canada. Many don't know that the grass roots the guy with the cow heard and calves are not getting a lot of the financial assistance that some components of the supply chain are presently getting. I have heard rumors (this is a story out of school) that many of the feeder associations are not financing at the moment (and some have not for two months) and our Alberta Ag minister was not aware of that until last weekend. Her comment was "those funds are government backed so the better get with the program."

Keep in mind that story was second hand but sounds like the same old story. The people that can make the choices for the producer at the moment are not being given "All" the information and I'm thinking what information they are getting may not be accurate.

All in all, we have to work with what we have, now is the time for aggression on the producers part. For those producers that see an advantage and want to build some strategies for the future, now is the time to do it!

[cowman]

Valuechain: You just may be right that there could be a silver lining in this cloud but it is one dark cloud right now! The Americans continue to play games while our industry inches closer to disaster.
Supply management could have worked if we'd got into it when Whalen offered it, but not now. Too much water under the bridge and the Americans don't like to be shut out of lucrative markets where they can use their subsidies to crush the locals!I saw an interview with Eugene Whalen where he was reflecting on what he had accomplished with supply management. He said he was very proud of the prosperous farms he saw in his area that were the direct result of supply management!
There really is no solution other than a vastly reduced cow herd catering to a small niche market. The cattle industry(as we know it) is pretty well toast. And in the long term maybe that's a good thing?

[ValueChainFX]

Cowman I'm sure you are right that we will have to do some better herd management in the next few years. We import a billion dollars worth of beef products into Canada, maybe it's time for the government guys to earn their keep. However, I for one am not holding my breath.

Firstly I sure believe that those on the front line in government have not concept of real life. Judging from meetings we have had with them, they really are miles away from the real issues at hand. Making things worst they are not passing information on to their bosses.

We will see an industry built on change. Knowing we have come this far as an exporting nation we can see with a closure such as we have today we are in hot water. But on the same line, we also need to balance our future and see why the farms are falling apart. It comes down to rural development and sustainability. These things cannot be done by one person. Centeralization has been the biggest pain in the producers butt! So maybe we have to build some of our own infrastructure back into the rural setting.

There is always a silver lining. But darkness forces us all to think. I for one am not planning on watching someone else take our markets. Yes, I do believe they are our markets. niche or not, time for us to fight for them tooth and nail. Time for the producers to make some of the profits and there are profits even in these times. If you have any doubts. Check out cows at 6 to 15 cents, the hide is worth about $70.00 so what is the packer getting the meat for? What are retail prices at?

We can make some thing happen rather than sit back and watch something happen!

[cowman]

Well Valuechain, you are an optimist! And Lord knows we need some, so have at her! I am too damned old and worn out to change very much. I liked the days when you just went out and did your thing and prospered!
Well, even as I write that I realize it was never really like that. It was always a struggle! The main reason I diversified into something else! I would have loved nothing better than to run a bunch of cows and do nothing else! I remember(and my mom reminds me if I forget!) in grade one when the teacher asked all the kids what they wanted to do. All the kids were like "I want to be a policeman, fireman, doctor etc." My answer was " I want to run a bunch of purebred hereford cows up in the hills!" Unfortunately I was not into poverty in a big way!!
I was a product of the baby boom(my mom and dad had six kids in seven years!) and I grew up wanting it all! Just like a lot of people. Was this a bad thing?

[ValueChainFX]

cowman, negative breeds more negative and we have more than our share out there now. We all want it all and through life find ways to get what we deserve (sometimes good some times bad) but no matter what we get, it seems some of the most rewarding things are in what we give. When you finally understand not everyone is going to be pleased with your contributions (funny how some folks are happy not doing there jobs, so if your contribution points this out you could be in trouble) all you have to know is "that iit is not always easy to do what’s right, but it's always right. Also we all make mistakes so humble pie is best eaten hot!

As far as you thinking you are past your prime my friend I have to tell you that in all the frustrations that I have in my day to day struggles to move ahead a little, I take council from a few close friends (mainly on issues of people and personalities, why some folks do what they do ... go figure!) and they are mostly the guys that have been around for a while. I find there ability to apply past history, integrity and honesty to life is refreshing. I always look forward to your comments (I may not like them all the time, but know they come from the right place) so your contributions are valued, your experience respected and I think others in here would agree your point of view appreciated.

[cowman]

Valuechain: On the whole I agree with you. I have gotten quite cynical in the last few years and sometimes I get quite frustrated with where this country is going. Maybe I'm going through the male menopause thing or something!!! Hey maybe that's it! I know most farmers my age are acting a little crazy! Maybe the federal government should forget about sending us money and just send us some Prozac? lol!

[ValueChainFX]

LOL, cowman now you are bringing Health Care into the picture and that is a whole issue on its' own! But I do understand the frustration. I know there have been many times I just want to say the heck with it and go work for someone and get a steady pay check!

But it always comes back to the point, if each of us as individuals don't do what we can to make positive change, who will? Like it or not its' our turn to do what we can for the future of agriculture.

[cowman]

I suppose you are right. It's interesting when you talk about the future of agriculture and I do agree we need to take care of our "niche" or local markets. I actually think the farmers markets type idea is the way to go. You cut out the middle man and deal directly with the customer. You have a high quality product or you take it back home with you! Of course now you have to be a marketer instead of just a producer! Which is a big pain in its own way but can also be very rewarding! Some people are born salesmen others aren't very good at it and actually shudder at the thought of it.
I like the idea of actually getting a little more than Safeway because people know you have a much better product!
I suspect the days of selling grain and livestock for export are pretty well done. Our government has pretty well decided they are too cheap to play that game! So in reality the US, Europe and South America will continue to beat us up in the international marketplace. And yet when you go down to the farmers market people don't care if the tomatoes cost 20 cents more than the imports at Safeway, because they know they are getting something that is tasty, fresh and naturally grown. And maybe helping out their local farmer a bit?

[ValueChainFX]

Cowman, selling product is selling product, being a marketer is something we all do. What comfort level we are at with who we are talking to is what makes the market! In saying that I know what you are saying and that is why we work with producers as a facilitator to the market! The system we are working on is far from perfect, but is coming together. Basically we have tied the marketing in with what is called a delivery contract (a New Generation Coop thing) the marketer wants to buy the producer wants to sell and the processing plant wants to book space. Each is part of the sale. Several options become open to the producer such as partner agreements with the marketer, value added pooling, etc. each options is well explained and each is tracked and measured for success. Since the animal is able to be traced back to the producer there is also an ownership in the animal (or meat) until the money actually changes hands.

The important part of what is being said here is ... you are right in that as the producer sells more directly to the consumer there is more possibility to make additional income on your product (animal).

I like the idea of putting coin into the producer pockets! I like the idea of closer contact to the Canadian customer! I like the idea of information going back to producer so they have a clear picture of the true value of their product in the market and how the cost of that value break down!

As uncomfortable as this makes some producers drastic times may mean drastic changes. If people are happy in the system we have worked in for years bless them! If they aren't they need an alternative, so someone has to start putting it together.

I get nervous when I see a group of people on TV telling the country they represent the industry and they are trying to figure out how to reduce the herds! I know most of these people on a more personal basis and many are so far removed from being a producer that sometimes I actually think they work for the government!!!!!

[cowman]

I suspect you are right and the guy who wants to stay in cattle will have to adapt. It has always bugged me that a lot of these old cowboys don't know and don't care if they are making any money! At least I know I'm NOT making any money! I still do it because I'm some kind of idiot or something but at least I don't delude myself! Guess my "profit" is watching the little calves running around!
I often wonder how come we have anyone raising cattle? It is just great when the good years roll around, even though they really aren't that good? I think if you could take the money you have invested and put it in just about any other business, you would do a lot better.

[Junebug]

Cowman: Both our accountant and a loans officer told us (the same day) that most farmers just do not know their cost of production.(and some don't care). Funny both guys said My spouse and I wouldn't be so stressed out if we didn't keep our pencils so sharp.
I used to take great offence to the saying "The dum farmer" now I'm starting to think its true.

[Junebug]

Cowman: Both our accountant and a loans officer told us (the same day) that most farmers just do not know their cost of production.(and some don't care). Funny both guys said My spouse and I wouldn't be so stressed out if we didn't keep our pencils so sharp.
I used to take great offence to the saying "The dum farmer" now I'm starting to think its true.