Who will pay?

[rsomer]

ivbinconned: you said "Or should I ask you for the third time to explain YOUR words about how equalization, "builds us", a "stronger", "more united" country."

My reply to your question is a country is only as strong as its weakest link.

I look forward to your reply to my questions of you. You said "The government can't do it for you in a fair and equatable (your spelling) manner." Given that point of view:
1. How do you see the cow calf producer surviving the next year without taxpayer support?
2. What would have become of the feeding industry since May 20 without taxpayer support?
3.Are you concerned about significantly increased American ownership of what Canadian cattle industry remains if there is no taxpayer support of the industry during this crisis?

Thank you.

[ivbinconned]

rsomer; are you suggesting that Quebec is the "weakest link"...and this justifies the massive transfer of wealth from Alberta to that province over many years???

Is it not in the realm of possibility that if that money had stayed in Alberta maybe there would not be as much foreign ownership of the packing industry today? That Money having been reinvested here? Debts both of government and individually might be much less. And we would have been better able to weather the present storm.

And hasn't my point that government can not or will not redistribute funds in a "fair and EQUITABLE" manner just been shown to be true in the payout to some feeders and not others!!

Governments may espouse laudable intentions but unfortunatly...the devil is always in the details.

[kato]

Cowman. Ya, I know our last government was no better. They are sure making noise now, though. Is it any wonder we are getting more cynical by the minute.

What we are supposed to do is anyone's guess. This new government program doesn't look like it's going to do a thing for us. I don't know who designed this one, but it doesn't impress me at all. I read through the literature, and can't figure out what it could possibly do.

What I do know is that they want our share up front, and we don't have it.

[cowman]

You know kato I've pretty well come to the conclusion that our various governments aren't going to do a damned thing for us! I think Valuechain has pretty well got it right! The only ones who will save us is us! Now I don't know how! All I know is I'm sick of a bunch of mealy mouthed politicians playing games and doing nothing. I think we need somebody like Rick Pascal to get the ball rolling again.

[cowman]

Just reading all these threads it has come to me that we need some Frenchmen running things out here! Why they could probably solve most of our problems real quick! Get old Ralph to open up the bank for us!
I wonder if the Quebec teachers and doctors do as much squawking as ours do? I mean does Quebec spend as much on education and healthcare per capita as Alberta does? To hear our medical staff and teachers talk you would think we are about the cheapest province in the country. Is this true? I think I saw something about half of the total Alberta budget is spent on healthcare and education...and yet they are not happy campers. So where should the funding be? Should it be 3/4 of the budget or higher? Where does it end? At 100%? Who will build the roads?
It seems to me businesses have had to make some radical changes to survive. Use technology to cut costs. Have the schools done this? Wouldn't it maybe be better to have the majority of kids on a computer taking their lessons rather than in an expensive building with an overpriced support staff? In the real world would the teacher be obsolete?

[Bruce14]

Just reading all these threads it has come to me that we need some Frenchmen running things out here! Why they could probably solve most of our problems real quick! Get old Ralph to open up the bank for us!
I wonder if the Quebec teachers and doctors do as much squawking as ours do? I mean does Quebec spend as much on education and healthcare per capita as Alberta does? To hear our medical staff and teachers talk you would think we are about the cheapest province in the country. Is this true? I think I saw something about half of the total Alberta budget is spent on healthcare and education...and yet they are not happy campers. So where should the funding be? Should it be 3/4 of the budget or higher? Where does it end? At 100%? Who will build the roads?
It seems to me businesses have had to make some radical changes to survive. Use technology to cut costs. Have the schools done this? Wouldn't it maybe be better to have the majority of kids on a computer taking their lessons rather than in an expensive building with an overpriced support staff? In the real world would the teacher be obsolete?
Cowman, some would argue that Quebec does run the west now. They have sure had a strong run with our last how many Prime Ministers being from la belle province?

I think you have nailed the future of education right on the head. With all due respect to Mrs. rsomer and other unemployed educators, per capita, there will be far less teachers needed in coming years. In the not to distant future classes may consist of students sitting at home in front of a computer either doing a correspondence type program or many competers linking in to one central program and then gathering in one location for exams only (most kids get more info from the internet than a textbook now). When this will happen who knows but it will happen just as home schooling seems to be gaining in popularity now.

I can't say that I look forward to that but it seems inevitable as education costs rise and and to eliminate possible incidents such as what happened at Columbine.

[ValueChainFX]

I guess when it comes to the question of who will pay; things can go in many directions. When we went to school, each of us had that teacher or two that could have retired ten years ago! It's important to educate no doubt, it's also important to look after health care (especially knowing we are all getting older here!) I can't help but think that all business has been looked at to make changes and make a leaner more effective machine! I'm sure each of you have seen waste and heard stories of waste in education, health care (and most any other business) In fact I would go so far to say we can probably name off the top of our heads people or business that cheats the systems of Canada everyday! What are we doing about this ... Well I don't think many people are doing much!

If you say something you become a radical (or a snitch)! If you keep your mouth shut you become part of the challenge. But here we are all looking at ways to reduce input costs and the input costs keep going up (who do you think pays for the cheats in every system)!

I suggest, we all review what we want to accomplish be it in education, health, rural development, roads or our own farms. It will be interesting to see some of the more progressive counties and communities build back some infrastructure components I believe were virtually stolen from them and put into the cities (of course for your own good!) Time for us to support our own education, health care and farm business.

Is this a little radical ... maybe impossible in your mind? Well go figure, I see some saying separation is the way to go, I just think it is a lot easier to find ways to boost your community and the infrastructure in your community and smile at your fellow Canadians.

Who will pay? Well we all pay, and the question we need to ask is, “Are we willing to pay the price are just be upset with the cost”?

[cowman]

I have never liked waste of any sort...probably the Scotch in me!
And yea, we see it everywhere and we're all guilty to some extent! I guess when it gets real blatent that it becomes a problem.
And despite all the propaganda from the medical and educational industries about how tough times are I think we can see some fairly blatent waste!
You rightly point out that businesses become more and more efficient by using new technology and cut costs as much as possible. The savings might be passed on to the customer or they might just be used to increase profits(which is okay..it makes the world go around). Then look at education and health care. The costs continue to skyrocket. Not all the fault of the workers for sure but they have to take some of the blame! Are doctors, nurses, school teachers overpaid or underpaid? We'll never know unless we have a truly free market and we sure don't have that now! I think we can all appreciate that anything the government runs has a tendency to sort of overun the boundaries?
For the cost are we getting a good return on healthcare and education? Is service improving as the costs go up? Well I'm not sure. Especially about education? Healthcare? Well if you get sick try to stay out of a hospital as they are nothing but pest houses and they will kill you! How come when I go see a doctor all he knows is to send me to a specialist(and tacks on a hefty little charge)? Is that all a GP is now? An expensive referral service?
Maybe I'm a little jaded but I think the whole medical thing needs to be scrapped! I think a witch doctor will do just about as much for you and maybe not kill you! I think the local vet knows a hell of a lot more than most doctors!
Valuechain: I know you are a radical and somestimes think outside the box! Which is a good thing...we have too many plodders and sheep in this world!

[pandiana]

Leverage and the dollar. Two major components that drive our economic system. Quebec threatens to leave Canada - leverage. Doctors and teachers threaten to go on strike. All of us have a fear of being sick and depend on our health system to alleviate these fears - leverage. Teacher strike forces working parents to find alternate care. Of course we want good education and health care but can it be bought? There is a finite pie of dollars to draw from. If doctors, nurses support staff all get more wages, infrastructure, or operating budgets will be reduced unless, of course, we get a larger pie. Teachers wage increases have dramatically cut into the operating system of all school boards. Need to increase the size of the pie if we are to maintain the same level of service. Elementary economics. The market responds to these because they have leverage.
How do you value the worth of an individual ? Baseball players, hockey players etc, ... if they're hot they have the leverage to demand big bucks. If we keep in mind the finite 'pie', for every dollar committed to one sector one is removed from another and the less likely that 'ordinary peasants, laborers, farmers, small business, etc' without leverage will keep up even if our economy continues to grow and the pie theoretically gets larger. Heath care has another aspect which complicates things in that with advances in technology, (MRI, PET, angioplasty, bipass surgery, organ transplants to name just a few)patients are expecting to receive every available treatment at any cost. Should we restrict the level of medicare so that a 'moderate' level of care is available to all? Extraordinary, or high tech care would have to be covered by private health care insurance of personal funds. How much can we afford? Does leverage accurate reflect value?

[rsomer]

panidana: What leverage do you see the beef industry having in this crisis. Over 1/2 billion has been paid to the feedlots, they must have had some leverage. If so, what about the cow calf guys.

You mentioned the finite pie. My view is that the pie can increase in size through growth in the economy.