Ralph the bonehead!

[cowman]

Ralph Klein stuck his foot in his mouth again when he said the American with the mad cow should have shot her and kept his mouth shut! We might all agree that that would have been a good thing for our pocketbooks, but this is good for consumer confidence? I imagine the Japanese were impressed with this message? Want to open up their ports tommorrow?
So I guess Ralph is telling us if we have a cow acting weird to drag out the old shotgun? Is this a good thing? Isn't this what the Americans would do? Cover up the problem at least until people start getting sick?
I think it's time our politicians and government beurocrats started taking food safety seriously instead of trying to dazzle the world with BS!! Test the damn things! Then you can say it is safe and do it with some actual proof.

[rsomer]

I believe what Ralph was really getting at is the problem with the OIE and WTO rules that were put into place to deal with the BSE situation in Britain. These same rules are being applied to Canada which successfully detected a single isolated case of BSE because they did test the damn thing. Our industry is in crisis as a result. Countries that do take food safety seriously and test for BSE will probably find an isolated case. But more reasonable responses are available based on the level of risk in that circumstance rather than the level of risk in Britain which would seem to be more appropriate. Until a reasonable response exists countries will take the 3 S option rather than see their domestic industry thrown into ruins.

And it never hurts to remind the Yankees that the fellow who hauled the downer cow to the packers was one of theirs. It could happen to them.

[ValueChainFX]

As we all know this is a mess, but what is the mess.

We know the industry has suffered big time through the boarder closing. We also know that the producers got the dirty end of the stick (again). We also know that our provincial and federal leaders know next to nothing about agriculture.

All of us in the industry now understand a whole lot better the BS that makes our industry work (or not work)!

I think our politicians need to take a look at the ag boys that work for them and kick some tush! A lot of BS has be feed to them through the beurocrats, and our boy Ralph is really just saying what a lot of the producers have been saying all along.

I happen to agree with cowman, Canadians tend to rise from the challenges and become stronger and better in the end for the way we handle these things. I'm all for testing every animal and making our trace back (trace forward) system the best and fastest in the world.

I would also like Ralph to put his ag department on notice and figure out a Ralph solution to how this department is being paid!!! Wouldn't it be nice if we could tie the beurocrats wages to how the producers were doing! Producers don't get paid well guess what Mr. beurocrats you don't either.

If we had more organization to our numbers maybe Ralph would get this message. Maybe time to get our grass roots producer organization together and flush some of these other little organizations that work for the big boys and forget we have foundation producers in this country too!

[pickarock]

Old Ralph - what a contortionist....... Has his head up his ass and his foot in his mouth. Isn't about time that he said something intelligent instead of using "shock therapy"(Jim Fishers words). We need to retain creditbility and trust with other countries. Not make them think we are trying to hide something. I think we need to go with cowman's idea of a proven safe product!

[wilagro]

When I learned to drive a car with a standard transmission, I was taught to use the clutch before shifting gears. Ralph should learn to use his brain before engaging his mouth. I don't think his remarks will do any lasting damage but it doesn't do our image any good in regard to handling the BSE situation and its solution.

[drill7]

I think Ralph should be praised for telling it like it is, and not being "politically correct" like so many politicians, and others.
So he offened some, tough, get over it.
As far as more testing goes, guess who is going to pay for it? The farmer, as usually.

[hgb]

Ralph may not be the smoothest politician, and may get caught in some predicaments. It is the media really blowing this statement out of poportion, it has taken them three days to get on this story and now all they want to do is some Ralph bashing with it. If other politicians would have had as much concern over the BSE issue as Klein maybe the border would already be open to live cattle.

[cowman]

Ralph is an astute politician! He knows how to push the right buttons without a doubt but I would suggest that right now was not the time to get out the redneck vote! We might all think he is saying it like it is but he doesn't need to impress us right now! He needs to impress the Japanese!
You can go on about how the media ran with this but the fact of the matter is he did say Peaster should have shot, shovelled and shut up! I thought we were trying to get the message out that we have a safe product that is BSE free? Not shoot,shovel and shut up!
Testing...who will pay for it? Who is paying for it not being tested? You and me! Cows at 12 cents or cows at 50 cents? Would you pay $25-50 to get the higher price? Anyone who wouldn't needs to get their I.Q. checked!

[jensend]

cowman is right with his logic about the economics of testing older cows and i doubt ralph would disagree. he was just expressing the frustrations of trying to deal with this in a logical and reasonable manner but still running into stone walls of people who dont want to be reasonable and then saying ok we wont be reasonable either. ralph has done more for the cattlemen of canada over the last months than any other politician in canada. we moved to sk from ab and all we have here are wind up dolls that say its ottawas responsibility.

[ValueChainFX]

No matter which way you slice it Ralph is doing the best he can with what he has. I still believe, if left up to Ralph many of the "Right" things would have been done already. But he still has people that work for him that feed him the BS that puts most of the BS in our way to progress.

Ralph will soon see this I'm sure and there will be a general butt kicking (I hope). The boys and girls playing in the Alberta Agriculture Department need to open their eyes to reality and either lead follow or get out of the way. At the moment I would be just as happy to see them get the heck out of the way!

[pandiana]

I understand that the expression, Triple S solution, originated in the states and pertained to the imported wolves that were supposedly bringing down their cattle. It has been in use since applied to owls and other protected species.

Now what farmer on either side of the border wants to be the next one to have a cow test positive for BSE?

The expression certainly speaks to the heart of our problem. I don't think there is much argument that this will be a common solution with no dead stock removal or at a cost of $50 to $75 was quoted in Alberta. I think most agree that downer cows should never be transported...so triple S. I am sure that Rcalf members having been doing this for years. How many BSE infected cows have already gone this way in US and Canada will never be known.

Unfortunately, even though Ralph's feux pas was a reflection of reality, it can and will be used in the worst possible way as ammunition to prolong the border closure by making it look as though we are deliberately circumventing BSE testing our cattle. This is really not the case as the spot checking (1:200 I think)that is done is not just downer cattle but all cattle going through the system, as I understand it.

[pandiana]

I have been reflecting for some time about whether we should be testing every animal to satisfy our export partners.

Some of the information available:

There is no scientific data to support an serious BSE outbreak in Canada or US.

Probabilties suggest if 1 is found there would probably have been at least another 6 in Canada and US, if it can been shown that prion infected feed was the source of the problem. (Apparently, a causal relationship has not yet been established) Of those 6 possible cases how many actually went into the feed chain? If so, if they were slaughtered at 14 months, prions would probably be below the level of detection.
If over 30 months, how many bought the Triple S solution? All in all, there shouldn't be that many around.

According to Wendy Holm, a journalist that specializes in public policy in agriculture, Canada has a good weapon its not using: the Free Trade Agreement. "closure is based on politics, not science, and that's not permitted under NAFTA...NAFTA has a whole chapter on agriculture. The right to restrict trade because of health concerns from diseases such as hoof and mouth, blue tongue and - yes - BSE falls squarely under the Sanitary and Phytosanitary sections of NAFTA. And the referee is SOUND SCIENCE, not protecting markets in Japan. NAFTA also guarantees investors rights of access and compensation when those rights are denied" http://www.cbc.ca/insite/COMMENTARY/2003/8/14.html

Cost is still a stumbling block for me. I am sort of leaning towards testing the estimated 650,000 to 750,000 cull cows (those waiting for disposal today). At the least cost scenario of $50.00 per test that would only be $32,000,000. The government of MB put in $20,000,000 to support their farmers, they could use this. If SK and AB would anti up, they could pay for the rest. Of course, this is ongoing, as their will that many more each year, maybe more if our herds grow to accomodate heifers retained due to lack of markets.

So with an aggressive testing in place, every old cow sold on the open market, would another case be found? Would that provide more ammunition to close our border for another 7 years?

If we tested every animal, would the US be pressured into doing likewise?

Is one case of BSE in our large cow herd and huge area equivalent to 120 cases in Italy or Japan? Should we be puting more pressure on re-writing the rule book?

[cowman]

Pandianna: the fact is perception is the whole ballgame. Now the Japanes insist we have everything tested. Which is how they operate. If we want to sell into their market...we test. And frankly if we want to sell into the American market we test????
And quite frankly what is the problem? We test we sell, we don't test we don't sell! Why is this a problem? Is it the $25-50? No problem here!
I just got an E-mail that there is a quicker, cheaper test out on the market. Will we go that way or will we risk pissing off the Americans who seem to have no interest in safe beef?

[carebear300]

I am for testing every slaughter animal and every other measure that is deamed necessary to get the beef moving across the border into the united states and the rest of the world. The only thing is that there had better not be any meat let into this country that is not tested or once again the canadian farmer will be put at an economic disadvantage to other producers in the world.

[dalek]

carebear I'll go you one more and add no beef should be let into this country from any country that doesn't have a traceback system. Ohhhh what country do we know that has NOOO way of tracing most animals back?