Who will pay?

[cowman]

Kato: So what happens to the cow guy in Manitoba? Did Manitoba sign on to Van Cliefs Ag scheme, where we're all going to be living the life of Riley? They claim big bucks are coming down the pipes if you guys sign up! For who I'm not sure? Maybe for the guys administrating it? I shouldn't speculate because I really haven't even read the info the government sent me!
Do you think your NDP government is handling this better than the last guy would have? It seems to me he was pretty close with the old pocketbook too?

[rsomer]

Bruce14: you said "It appears to me you have come full circle in your arguement."

In my earlier post I was trying to show the other side of the issue, from a school teachers viewpoint. How we need to communicate to the urban taxpayer in way that they can relate to, which might be different than how a cattle producer would relate to the same message. I was at a meeting last night with Sheila Copps, she pointed out that 50% of Canadians live in 8 major cities. She also pointed out that there has been 7 years of uninterrupted growth in the economy and a lot of Canadians are doing very well. This might explain the generosity that government has been shown our industry to date. I think back some years when the economy was in recession and government was into budget cuts. The cattle industry might not have received what help it has if this crisis has happened at that time. Since my wife is both a teacher and lives on the farm she does see the need for help for the beef industry but at the same time wishes there was more money for education.

In the post you referred to I also mentioned how successful the oil industry has been in communicating its message to the taxpayer. I suggested that a possible reason for this was when oil prices were down jobs were lost and when drilling activity is down, energy prices are seen to rise. I have since thought there is another reason. A lot of people own shares in oil companies and their retirement depends on the oil companies showing a profit. It is easier to convince the taxpayer of the importance of your industry if their pocketbook is impacted as well as yours.

[rsomer]

kato: you said "they brought out low-interest loans, so we could all get a little deeper in debt."

Our national beef organization, the Canadian Cattleman’s Association (CCA) is not supporting direct deficiency payments to the cow calf producers, only to the feedlots which held cattle to be fattened as of May 20. The CCA policy for the rest of us is interest free cash advances with the rest of the support to the primary producer to be funneled through CAISP.

The CCA is describing their policy as a four pronged approach but really it is a two pronged approach, one approach for feedlots and another approach for the cow calf producer. CAISP will support those cow calf producers who were fortunate to have built up a healthy reference margin. But I shouldn’t have to qualify for support in this crisis by having shown a profit in three of the past five years, the feedlots didn't have to. Many cow calf producers hard hit by repeated droughts have no reference margin left and will receive no support from CAISP. It is not fair that the feedlots received unconditional grants while cow calf producers receive interest free loans that have to be paid back and CAISP if your lucky. It appears that on this issue government is only following the advice of the CCA who are speaking on our behalf. I am disappointed that all sectors of the industry are not being treated equally.

[Bruce14]

rsomer, did you ask Sheila any of the tough questions? Did you ask what her gov'ts plan was to help open the U.S. border to Canadian Beef or was she just in town to sell gay marraiges, maryjane legislation or gun control? Did you ask her why her gov't was using the BSE crisis to force provinces to sign on to the APF?

You mention she said Canada has enjoyed 7 years of uninterrupted growth. Did you ask her if that was all of Canada or was it central Canada where the votes are and her particular riding.

Yea I believe 50% of Canadians live in 8 major cities. What's her point? 80% of Canadians also live within an hour of the TransCanada corridor. We all know when we flip the T.V. on election night that event though the polls just closed Peter Mansbridge always says "For those of you just joining us from Manitoba west we can tell you the .........'s will be forming the next gov't".

Now the point I don't understand "This might explain the generosity that government has been shown our industry to date." Were they passing out some "WEED" at this meeting with Sheila. The BSE crisis has barely been noticed by the Liberal gov't. Where has Sheila's fearless mentor J.C Superstar been through all of this?

Rsomer I hope you didn't let Miz.
Copps off too easy while she was busy patting herself on the back.

[rsomer]

Bruce14: The question I wanted to ask was can Canada afford to pursue its own policies if the United States doesn’t approve. Sheila mentioned she did not support Canada taking part in the U.S Strategic Space Initiative and I was left wondering if we can say no to the U.S. anymore. Faced with the U.S. stance on BSE (I don’t believe beef is crossing the border yet), tariffs on Canadian wheat, softwood lumber. Sheila mentioned magazines, can Canada take a position independent of the U.S. on any issue without being hammered with reprisals. Questions were limited to only three and I never got to ask. One old guy got up and said he thought there should be a holiday in June and it should be called "Who Gives a Damn Day". I thought that was pretty good. Sheila gave just a brief talk, she is an impressive lady who has some good ideas even if I didn’t agree with everything. She was speaking to college students, not to farmers, and her comments were along lines of interest to them. I don’t think anyone needed to pass out any weed at this college meeting, there was probably some already there. She was in Red Deer looking to gain delegates for the leadership election November 15. Sheila’s comments about 50% living in 8 cities was to underline her vision of stronger regions where children can work close to home. I support that. I think the ½ billion of federal support already spent is a lot of money for cattlemen, too bad it never got spread around to a lot more people. It will take a lot more support than that but I am worried it isn’t going to be there for the cow calf guy. I don’t know if you can blame government for everything, our industry leaders are letting us down too.

[rusty1]

rsomer: Boy your a bear for punishment. Now we know why you think the way you do didn't there was any like you out west any more.
Do you know the definition of a LIBERAL Someones who's own interest are not at stake at the moment.
I what you remind you of the questions from ivbenconned - when are you going to answer them.

[Bruce14]

Yep the biggest fears around here after BSE are the NDP scraping out another victory and something happening to Paul Martin resulting in Sheila Copps being our next P.M.

[rsomer]

Bruce14 and rusty1: I don't believe Sheila Copps won't be our next PM but I admire her for trying and taking a stand. I don't agree with all her positions but that doesn't mean I can't see positive things too. I personally think most of our politicians, no matter which party they are from, are exceptional people who work very hard on others behalf. If that makes me a bear for punishment then we need more bears out there.

What questions did you want answered?

[ivbinconned]

Rsomer; reread my coments as to the questions I asked you! Or should I ask you for the third time to explain YOUR words about how equalization, "builds us", a "stronger", "more united" country.
But keep in mind that when I grew a great crop of barley in 1999 and sent it to Alberta and got a total of 135.00 per acre. Your tax dollars sent through Sheila, or sorry, I mean the feds, ended up in the jeans of a Quebec friend garnering him a $120.00 an acre subsidy over and above his crop. And he didn't even have to pay a premium, it had already been deducted!
And another thought. If we are still into Nation building, how come the money flow is from west to east? Wasn't the country pretty much setteled East to West. Are we not more the newcomers in this CON...federation?

[rsomer]

ivbinconned: you said "Or should I ask you for the third time to explain YOUR words about how equalization, "builds us", a "stronger", "more united" country."

My reply to your question is a country is only as strong as its weakest link.

I look forward to your reply to my questions of you. You said "The government can't do it for you in a fair and equatable (your spelling) manner." Given that point of view:
1. How do you see the cow calf producer surviving the next year without taxpayer support?
2. What would have become of the feeding industry since May 20 without taxpayer support?
3.Are you concerned about significantly increased American ownership of what Canadian cattle industry remains if there is no taxpayer support of the industry during this crisis?

Thank you.