Economic Conspiracy

[CowsRus]

Cowman
I do not know about live and let live any more. Things are going to far. Did you read what this guy is saying. Pretty extreme HuH.
Live and let live is just what our tolerant society has been doing. The RCMP turban thing has not bothered me too much. It kind of died away. I was upset about that. However this gay lesbian thing is different. These guys are chewing away at the moral fibre of our country and the very definition of a family. I can tell you I am concerned.
Probably I am more concerned about the beef situation this fall. I am really wondering about it now that harvest is done.

[countryguy]

Yep.Live and let live is the exact reason that this country is the way it is.Nobody here has the balls to stand up for what they believe in anymore.Everyone is just too damn passive.Pathetic!

Just so you know Cowman I'm referring to the philosophy and not you personally.

[jensend]

on the other hand if you listen to GLTUSA he doesnt sound a whole lot different than the fundamentalist Muslims. its just that they each think they have God in a box and have interpreted the divine will differently. theres no doubt our govt doesnt represent us but whats the better form of govt we could choose. we just need to choose better representation or stand up ourselves. the linkage GLTUSA makes between Christianity and prosperity is odious and doesnt stand the truth test if he looks around at central am. countries.

[ivbinconned]

Gbtusa; I mentioned some where else in these threads that if this bse issue stirs up alot of anti American sentment in Western Canada where traditionaly there has been strong pro American thinking...I can just see our Prime Minister and those he surrounds him self with gleefully rubbing there hands together and having a good laugh.
Our federal government has rarely in our history shown serious interest in the well being of the Western Canadian economy. IN fact there has been in the past blatant attacks buy the federal government on western resorces. If some areas of western Canada have done well it is not because of government but inspite of it!
Actually the only reason Canada exsists is because upper and lower Canada hated the Americans more that they hated each other. But then they realized that if they would stick together they could rob the eastern and western colonies of there resourse's.They have been very successful at this. And they have always encouraged anti American sentement through the years but it has traditionaly been rejected by the West.
Westerners generally have rejected the eastern establishment down through the years for economic and social reasons and have demonstrated there dislike buy starting many politcal partys, or protest movements one could say. All have failed when it comes to the important issues. Like the present crop, they got good paying jobs but can not stop the steamroller of Quebec and Ontario.
I aggree with much of the thrust of what you write but please understand, we in the West who are devastated by current events are subserviant to our eastern masters. Toronto has more members of parliment than does all of British Columbia. Prince Edward Island has more senators than Alberta, go figure? We are at the whim of our central government and helpless to inact anykind of influence in the present system.
Because of the many years of exporting our resourses it has become cemented in our minds that we have to export what we produce, grow, dig up, or chop down to get those Canadian dollars...and if we don't...we die! As the dollar dropped in value we produced more, drilled more and chopped more.
In reallity this is not true...if it were Japan,Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, and South Korea who have little in the way of natural resourses, would be poor. They are not.
If it were true then Venezuela and the Congo would be rich...they are not.
The words of Goldwin Smith come to mind, he said Canada was "rich by nature,poor by policy."
Again...please understand, we in the west are "serf", we are hurting, and polically helpless. Lashing out at America has been encouraged by our leftist media and our left wing policals for years, it is part of our culture.
I for one say God Bless America we could have done far worse for a neighbour. And yes I love my old Chevy truck.
We are all hopefull that you don't shut us out for long. Please don't punish us for the sins of our masters.

AFTER ALL " there is hopful symbolism in the FACT that FLAGS do not wave in a vacuum"!!

[achiliak]

The references that GLTUSA uses are basically true. I don't like his American arrogance either (we need them but they don't need us, they "bless" us with dollars, etc.) but what he says is true. Societies that turn their back on the one true God quickly die. It is not that they totally disappear, but rather, they become quarrelling lot, torn apart from within (sound familiar???). The ancient Egyptians, Romans etc. all suffered from the same type of POLITICAL problems that we are quickly diving into. The issue that I would like to take him to task on is that he is painting us all with the same brush. Yes, I realize that the leadership of a country determines its course and therefore its eventual destiny, but, we in the west tend to think much differently than our Eastern counterparts, which is where almost all of the politicians from the ruling party come from. GLTUSA, don't think that God loves only your nation, or that you have the sole right to dole out God's blessings. Remember that God created us all and all that we possess.

I still don't see the correlation of this to the present beef crisis in Canada. And yes, I wish we would shut off the "tap" and cause some of the prices of our inputs to go down.

[ValueChainFX]

Ohhhhhh what a tangled web we weave!!!

We do not have to hold up the comparisons of Canada verses the USA! Each of us has our own challenges with some of the things the US does! Just as each of us has challenges with what our leaders back east do!!!

When it comes to our agriculture policy and a wiliness to take a stand, I know for a fact, that many producers are taking a stand! They have basically said they are not going to depend on government to save them. They are not going to wait for government to do the right things! In Canada there is a real grass roots movement in the farm communities to organize a Canadian partnership of rural individuals and communities.

Although the issues that our US friend has pointed out make me cringe those same issues are dealt with everyday in many ways throughout the global communities. Because a bully tells us we have to think like they do, can not change right and wrong (whatever that may be) Our company deals with producers everyday and when I think about it, I don't know one gay producer (not that there isn't any in Canada or the US) I don't know of any that smoke pot! And no one has told me they can hardly wait to go try out these new Heroin centers! We have the same challenges as the US when it comes to marketing to the global community! Anyone that feels that exports are not a big part of the market has something missing (like facts).

Economic Conspiracy???? well maybe not in your eyes, but think about strategies that our in place already and how those strategies were formulated. The strategies are almost always based on leverage, the best leverage is economic in nature, is this a conspiracy or business! Call it what you like we base or goals on many complex global market indicators. Attitudes of some individuals is one of those indicators and all I can say is if you don't want to eat Canadian beef "Next" as someone else does!!! If a person is sick of how anyone acts, or what they say ... why come to a place that upsets you!

Do I want to change your mind as to how you feel? You feel the way you do based on your life’s experiences and it is up to you to change what you may not like. Canadian producers will do just fine in the long run and as history has shown us most of the time, we become better when we overcome a challenge. We shall overcome!!!

[GodLovesTheUSA]

Man—you Canadian beef producers just do not get it. You continue to think that you are part of a great country, with a great moral tradition and that you are world leaders. You Canadians like to think that you are great and everyone needs you. Nonsense. That was the past. You were great. Not any more.

Rather than insult Canadians, who I love. Let me talk about Russia.
Russia was a great country, and a mighty international military power. They are nothing any more. They are a lot more in the world than Canada, but they are nothing any more.
Now say for example, in the past the powerful Russia wanted to do business with other parts of the world. Many parts of the world wanted to do business with Russia because they were important and significant. Russia would be doing business by the set of rules that were in place at that time.
Now however, Russia is weak and needy. If they have a widget that they would like to export, they have to operate by a different set of rules. Not only do they have to have a good widget that is better than other countries are providing, they have to garner favor with other customers (countries) that they might like to sell to. This is no different than any business. They have to make the total package as attractive as they can.
Russia does not have the luxury of being as independent as they used to be.
Japan is an exporting nation. I am sure that if they wanted to sell to Australia, that the business and government leaders of that nation would NOT go out of their way to insult Australians in public. In private maybe, but not in public. Japan would do all that it could to provide the best in products and conditions and try to garner favor with the countries that it deals with. In this scenario Australia, as the consuming nation, which has the currency that Japan wants, holds the power. Australia can buy from Japan or they can buy from Korea. Guess who has the power. I guess that makes them ugly Australians.
Canadians do not seem to realize that they do not have any power. Once you become reliant on exports you loose power. You take pride in your Medicare system, which was developed at the expense of your military. Your Medicare system does nothing to gain export markets and build your economy. Your country does not protect anyone. You are weak and insignificant. You look at your great history, as I am sure Russia does, but that is not the reality any more.

NO ONE needs your beef. Your cost of production is too high for the international market, which is highly subsidized. Your government likes to make outrageous political decisions and legalize pot and make life nice for gays and lesbians, and on and on. You act like you are a great nation. Well you are not. You cannot continue to mock your best customers and continue to behave like you are somebody. Who are you trying to impress.- Holland-Sweden other liberal countries. You have arrogantly treated your best trading partners as if they are your equals. Wrong. Canada has nothing to offer any more
You are not world leaders in morality
You are not world leaders economically
You are basically door to door salesman, hoping someone buys your products.
Holland can make decisions like your government is making because they are not dependant on exports. They have security in the EU. Canada thinks that it can slap the face of its best customers and get away with it.
The aggressive attitude that has been expressed in this forum is indicative of the way Canadians act. I can be rude and arrogant. You don’t have to like it. You, however, can not afford to be independent and arrogant back. The comments expressed by countryguy are what potential customers like to hear. You have the right to think differently, but unless you can afford to tell your customers off-- be careful.
If the USA is ever weak and insignificant , I hope that we have the brains to know it. Knowing Yankees I bet that we would be the nicest, most accommodating nation on earth. You might not like it- but that is the way it is.

[CowsRus]

What you are basically saying is if Amercians say "Jump" we should say
"How High?"
Is that any different than slavery?

[GodLovesTheUSA]

Canadians have a bitter pill to swallow. They are not willing to take the steps that are necessary to economic independance and international power. Yet they do not like facing the reality of the weak situation.
The answer is "Yes". if you want to feed your kids and pay your bills.
Canada could still be a great nation, morally, militarily and economically. The USA is not preventing this from happening.
If you keep electing governments like the Liberals or communists or what you have up there, expect your fate to be like every other socialist or communist country. And you can just keep on blaiming your problems on someone else.

[GodLovesTheUSA]

I am going to paint the picture a little clearer for you socialists up there. Canada is a door to door salesman. As such they are going door to door looking scruffy and bleary eyed, with a joint smoldering in one hand, wearing a cap that says WE LOVE GAYS AND LESBIANS. At the same time they are saying that they do not want to help their customers and that they think their customers are ugly, mean warlike bastards. Just think how much they are going to sell.
Would you not think that a door to door salesman would be more successful if he came to the door with a reputation as a pillar in the community, dressed neatly, and smelling fresh with a friendly smile. Would it not be nice if the customer knew that this salesman was his friend, and that there were ties that went beyond business. Maybe the first salesman was a fine man at one time, even a friend at one time,but not any more. Is this a clear enough picture?

[rookie]

no matter what you ( gtlusa) have said so far, its pretty obvious to me you are thumbing your nose at Canada. You have in a matter of paragraphs brought forward every steriotype of intolerance and arrogance I have seen in a while. Politics aside, do you ever wonder why so much of the world does not care for your nation? Do you ever look in a mirror?
How stupid do you think Canadians are generally?
Now that you have had your little rant about politics , religion , economics and pilosiphy, do you think you have convinced anyone ?
Probably not, its all about "me" (meaning you), right?!
You know what my God given right to free speech ( and with the good grace of the moderators here ) says... its too bad you will never get it.

[cowman]

Without a doubt GLTUSA has a few good points! One is the problem we have had relying so much on the American market. Everything is fine until the protectionist forces in that country decide to crack the whip. I guess the one thing this whole political trade war(the BSE crisis) has proved is we can't rely so heavy on the US. Perhaps it's time we started moving back towards our roots in Europe? It's not inconcievable that we could get into the EU? Or do we just wait out the unfriendly administration in the US? Unlikely Bush will get back in after basically destroying the American economy. But the BSE thing has shown us it is not a good thing to be in bed with an elephant because when he rolls over...?
And GLTUSA...we don't need a huge military because we don't go around trying to slaughter third world countries! And they don't attack us because we don't go around trying to meddle in their affairs and steal their oil!
And further more where do you get off calling me a socialist? If I got one half the subsidies you get from agriculture I'd think I was in heaven! I pay dearly for my medi-care insurance(through a premium and taxes) and the service isn't all that great!!! Most Canadians support medi-care because we care about our poor, elderly and children. Maybe someday soon you will catch up with Canada?
Where did you ever get the idea we are legalizing dope? Do you realize America has a much bigger problem with drugs than Canada? You should stop listening to propaganda from idiots like John Walters(the American drug czar)! The only difference is we don't think some kid with a joint should get 26 years in prison like the 16 year old did in Louisiana! Do you realize you have the largest prison population in the world per capita? And over 25% are for minor drug convictions? This is progress?
Now tell me one more thing? Aren't gay marriages in fact legal in Hawaai? Isn't Hawaai part of the US? How about Colorado?
Now where did I once read "Don't try to take the splinter out of your brothers eye until you remove the plank from your own eye"??? Guess who said it?