What if?

[cowman]

What if the government offered $700/cow to destroy them? Do you think they would get any takers? Could we clean up all the culls and maybe a whole lot more? I suspect some people would see it as a golden opportunity to leave a dying industry with at least the shirts on their backs?
I've talked to lots of older farmers who were planning to quit anyway but now are stuck holding the bag. They are sick of drought, high feed prices, and paying through the nose for everything. They are sick of working for nothing and they are tired of all the work.
If they could get a modestly decent price they would be gone like a shot. BSE is good for the packers and Safeway(record profits) and maybe that is why our government won't do much? Keep the peasants down on the farm sort of thing toiling away for subsistance?
This whole thing could also be a good thing for the banks! Get the government to put up a little money so the farmers can keep up the interest payments while farm land values come down, then they can steal the land and sell it to wealthy urbanites for a playground!
Why, I'm beginning to believe this BSE thing is a good thing for the country! Of course we'll have a surplus of cull cows and a surplus of broke farmers to get rid of. We might need two pits...one for the cows and one for the farmers???

[grassfarmer]

Yes, Cowman, I'm sure they would get plenty takers at $700 a head, it's a market like any other and would be the logical outlet for people with cull cows to sell. I don't see the industry dying when we look to the markets - these feeder markets are showing surprising strength as the feedlots gamble on the border opening.
The "lots of older farmers going to quit" and "get out if they could get a decent price" are all familier cries. It's a sad fact that most of these old guys have no other interest in life and are loathe to retire. Sure, they moan when prices/drought/weather are bad but they still keep doing it through their own choice. Based on the European experience land prices won't come down as a result of BSE - why should they as we are talking about running more cattle in the short term, not less and once the border opens plenty people will be looking to expand given the historically low cattle numbers in North America which should lead to an upturn in prices.

[cowman]

Perhaps I'm looking at it from a narrow perspective because of where I live. I believe I could count on one hand the number of young farmers(35 yrs. old or less) in a ten mile radius. Land prices around me are only going one way...up! Not because of agriculture but because of lots of oil and gas money looking for a home!
I wonder who will be doing all this expanding? I guess we will need to import a lot more European farmers who have money to burn. It would seem our young people are not too interested in farming.
I have to agree that some of these old boys live to farm but there comes a day when they just can't cut it anymore. I have two old uncles in their eighties that still run about 100 cows. They always look like they are totally exhausted. I sure hope I never end up like that. When they die their land will probably be sold to a developer and voila there goes 100 cows! And a 100year farm! But then that is progress and the way of the world.

[boone]

So I hear what each of you are saying, but when was the last time anyone out there asked around to see if a neighbour had a son or a daughter that had a burning desire to build a herd. Or a young couple that had dreams or aspirations of renting that back 40 of yours and getting their feet wet. It is important for us as farmers to nurture the next generation of Cattle producers. Buy some quality seed stock and lease them out on shares, see where it goes. You might save some tax up front, and build a little retirement fund for later. And there might just be someone to serve sandwiches at our funerals. Just a thought.

[kato]

We have three young cattle farmers in our neighbourhood, and they all come from our old 4H club. It was a great club at the time when these ones were members. It must have made an impression. I'm sure it's still great. This is where our future probably lies.

Our son was supposed to buy 20 heifers this year and start up, but that is looking really scary at the moment. I guess he would be the 4th member of that old beef club to stay in cattle. He still wants to do it, though, so we'll back him up.

Money or not, it's a great way of life.

[boone]

GOOD STUFF
4-H I wish my kids had been in it, but I'll try to do my part anyway. Only thing I see is to balance advancements in industry (genotype,testing for marbling,fertility, and immunity), and work the databases and teach these kids about records and the advantages along with good animal husbandry and feed maximization. The industry will eventually go to the country that takes care of these principals. I bet money on it.

[cowman]

Don't be sad because your kids weren't in 4H. They won't have learned all the "good" things like how to cheat on the records, switch animals when yours gets sick, how your last name affects the price!
I was in 4H from about 12 yrs. to 17 and I know how it is. I refused to let my kids join because I didn't want them exposed to the hypocracy!

[boone]

Cowman, generalizations can have a broad brush stroke, however I hear your concerns. Is there anything we could do to improve the situation.

[cowman]

Oh I don't think so. The fact of the matter is 4H is soon to be a thing of the past along with the rural community.
I shouldn't rip it maybe because I have to admit I had a whole lot of fun at it when I was a kid. And I actually have no clue if it is run better now.
I guess in a way it taught me some valuable lessons for sure...one day I was very sick. My father asked if I had fed my calf. I replied I was just too sick to feed him(I had some type of really ugly flue). His answer...When you're dead your too sick, until then get your butt out and feed him!!!
My old man was pretty tough but he sure taught me how to cowboy up!

[kato]

4H is as good as it's leaders, and parents. When I was a leader, it was a constant struggle to keep the parents in check. The kids were wonderful. As leaders, we took the policy that the kids ran the club, and they did. Every decision was voted on by the members, and the parents stayed out of it. That was the hard part, keeping the parents back. Sometimes we didn't agree totally with what the kids decided, but we let them go on with the decision. If it didn't work out, the kids learned to accept the consequences. It paid off in a big way.

There was another club in our area that wasn't so lucky. The leaders were all purebred breeders, and it was every man for himself. At one time they almost folded the club, because of the competitiveness. I actually saw one of the Dad's take a brush out of his boy's hand, and tell him to "Get out of there, your're not doing it right". We considered we had done a good job when the kids did that to the parents!

[cowman]

Ah yes Kato, the old purebred game! Been there, done that! When I was a kid if your calf was'nt a red white face you were toast! Now if he isn't black or of an Angus persuasion you might as well go home.
And here are all the poor Charlais breeders kids with these darned white steers!
And if the kid sells the champ it makes the old man look good and the bull buyers show up at the door.
Unfortunately that is the nature of the game and it won't change! That is why 4H is basically flawed. Maybe it would be better to have the kids join the 4H sewing club or something?

[kato]

The white steers have always been discriminated against as far as shows are concerned. Our boys always had white steers, and stuck it out. They were of an age where the 10 foot tall underfinished Simmentals won all the time. One judge justified his choice one year because according to him, the Grand Champion had "eye appeal". Never mind that he would be lucky to grade a B.

Our boys learned to stick to their guns, and stayed with their home grown steers. They knew a fad when they saw it. They still know one. That was a big lesson they took out of the program.

[cowman]

Well if they learned that then they really did get something out of it!
I always did like Charlais cattle. I still think nothing grows like a Char!
The first Char bull I ever used was on a herd of purebred hereford cows and those white faced buckskin calves were something else! Rang the bell at the mart for sure!
Now the trend is Angus! Which is okay because they've come a long way. I use some AI angus bulls on the heifers, but still go with a Char Or red Simmental on mature cows. Some of those old first cross Char/hereford cows were the best I've ever owned. Good feet,udders, milked well, good dispostions, very fertile, big, lived forever!
The bad thing I see with this Angus trend is that the commercial man is using Angus bulls again and again. This is not a good thing! If you are not cross breeding you are leaving one hell of a lot of money in the field! Or as my old AI instructor put it...You don't need to crossbreed if you inherited the farm and a million dollars, or if you have ten oil wells, but otherwise you'd better be crossbreeding!