Question

[rusty1]

Cowman - You're right about "you're way being the right way". One can't debate that. And if you are more in love with you're life style than with being the most efficient and running the least cost per lb. of calf raised then go for it. However when I hear producers complain about not making money in the cow business and their cost to raise a calf is twice as much as someone else I know, I have a hard time empathizing. I just saying that the cost to winter a cow comes directly out of the check you get for her calf. If you put $150 per winter into the cost of the calf it's harder to get that $150 added to the value of the calf. Figure itout. What do you have to do, and how much harder do you have to do to set an extra $150 onto the price of the calf at sale time?

[rsomer]

I am reminded of an "expert" I know of who over 20 years ago was on the coffee and donut circuit trying to demonstrate to cow calf producers that cows could be wintered on straw based rations. Here was an example of an expert not only telling us which end of the cow to feed but how it should also be done. At the time straw based rations were not very common. I had an opportunity to speak with this expert last winter. He is now doing policy work with Alta. Ag. but he recalled his days doing extension and his work with wintering rations. He pointed the way and years later a lot of cows made it through the winter of 2002-03 on straw based rations. I can think of so many changes I have seen since I started farming in the early 70s, changes that were developed, demonstrated, and promoted by experts before producers slowly accepted them and claimed them as their own idea. The way we feed cows, calve cows, market the calves is different today then it was then because of these "experts".

[kato]

Last winter I listened to a lot of "experts" touting the benefits of late calving. It worried me. It's not for everyone, as far as I'm concerned. They had studies that proved it paid more to calve late, feed the calves lightly, then sell them off of grass the next fall. The only thing they missed was how to survive for that extra 8 months with no money! I guess after you got through the first year or two, your cash flow would sort itself out, but boy, that's a long time with no income. Their technical stuff was OK, but their practical side was a bit lacking.

The important thing is that what's right for one operation, is not right for another. You have to listen to the experts, sift through what they have to say, and use what applies to you.

We calve in winter also, for a lot of reasons. Same as cowman, big calves in fall are really nice. Our cattle are quiet, as well, having been handled. We've got a few late pasture born calves right now, and they literally bounce off walls whenever you are around them! Our pastures are far from home, so if we're not finished calving by May, we've got problems.

There are dangers in only doing what the experts recommend, and also in ignoring them. You do what fits your setup. You have to think for yourself

[cowman]

Well, I tried to answer this thread in a rather nasty way and got zapped so I'll try a nicer way.
First of all why do you think it costs me $150 more? I would be glad to compare my actual feed costs with anyone, including the June calvers.
First of all I feed a lot of quality straw...with the emphasis on "quality"!
Second I have a cow herd that is raised to be tough and get the job done! I use AI to get the genetics I desire. My actual out of the pocket expenses for feed are twine and diesel!
After four generations in this country and many more in Scotland and England I guess me and mine might know a bit about a cow? There is an art to this thing that all the schooling in the world can't teach you. You either have the "eye" or you don't!
Now by calving early(in a time wasted otherwise) you get a 750 lb. calf instead of a 500 lb. one! I suspect a lot of the people who go on about "efficiency" are really too lazy to get up at 2 AM in January! And probably too lazy to get up at 2AM in june too!

[cowman]

rsomer: Do you think feeding straw is revolutionary? Back in the twenties and thirties thats all they got, with maybe a little slough hay if it was available. Any good hay was saved for the weaners and the working horses.
I have to agree with kato on taking what works for you from the "experts". Because some of the things they come up with are not practical at all. And it always amazes me when they make some revolutionary discovery that is in reality as old as the hills. I guees that's why we pay them the big bucks?

[rsomer]

I agree. I like kato’s comments "The important thing is that what's right for one operation, is not right for another. You have to listen to the experts, sift through what they have to say, and use what applies to you." A concern I have is that we don’t always get to sift through what the experts say, more and more often the expert advice comes to the industry in the form of regulation. i.e. manure regulations. Be that as it may, we will still need the experts to help us remain competitive as the rest of the world is constantly improving the way cattle are raised and processed. Whether is it cost of production, or food safety or herd health our beef industry needs to keep constantly moving forward. It is critical to our long term success that we as an industry have access to the highest level of science and expertise. Wouldn’t it be fair to say that if we depended strictly on our old time knowledge acquired from our years of personal experience as producers that we would, within a generation, end up with a stagnant old time industry.