Calving nightmare

[woodland]

We're at three weeks of mud that just keeps getting worse. We've burned up more straw/ bedding in these three weeks than the past two years and the yearlings are out in the bush not getting any through this. Rained yesterday and snowed today with the forecast calling for three more days of it. I know we have lost one calf in it that we can't find and almost had another today. Cow missed the bed by twenty feet.

Can't drive a quad or even hardly walk through it anymore and this is on top of a hill. Hope it gets better soon...

[grassfarmer]

Tough conditions Woodland - we used to see plenty of that in Scotland, less so here. My instinct is always to avoid congregating cattle, especially if the conditions are poor. You don't have anywhere to spread them out - like in the bush where the yearlings are? We've done things like that on occasions and the cows always manage just fine. Anything you can do to make the conditions a little better for them then get out of the road and let them get on with it. One thing for sure, you'll get through it so just take it one day at a time and hang in there.

[WiltonRanch]

The mud is the shits this year. I've lost some from this shit, and the worst is getting ones in if you need to get calves nursing. Not to mention dumb calves not pairing up as good as they should. Knock on wood scours and pneumonia haven't been a problem. Next calving I'm moving to even higher ground and somehow make it easier to move out pairs by myself.

[woodland]

Grass we are at 6 inches of snow in 5 hours and they were calling for 1-2. I could move the feeders every day and the mud would be at least a foot deep still. We got 400 cows on 20 acres and 120 first calf heifers on 10 acres and they've destroyed at least a third of each field already. I'm picking up calves born in the snow when they got lots of bed space so I'm reluctant to kick them out on a full quarter. Maybe I'm bitter since it's 3 am and I've still got 4 hours till my replacement shows up or that the past two years years have been both the driest, wettest, and most frustrating of the 16 years I've been doing this full time. Tops bse in my books here.

[grassfarmer]

You are fighting the cows instincts woodland, they generally want to go off somewhere and calve away from the herd not be crowded together on a bedding pack. I'd give the 400 2 quarters and the heifers one. Turning fields black with cows feet is an opportunity although it maybe doesn't feel like it. Your cows are working up a field for free. When this is over go broadcast some seed and harrow/roll it in and you've got some low cost renovation. We had to do that at break up this year as the banked grass fields were too wet to go on so we fed on a "sacrifice" field - doesn't look pretty now but nature is a great healer and i'm confident it will look better than before come fall.

[Blaithin]

Don't think I'd go as extreme as grassfarmer and let them lose on 2 quarters - that's a lot of area to check and animals are going to be missed. Unless maybe, it's just a wide open field with windbreaks plopped here and there with bedding. Then that would work. 2 quarters treed would be a lot of work and potential nightmare.

But I do agree that's a very small area for the number of head. How could they not punch it out into a muddy mess. Let them loose in a field.

[15444]

I'm curious, when calving on big areas of grass like that, and those numbers, what happens when a cow has a breech calf, twins, or worse yet needs a c-section or uterine prolapse? Bullet to the head or just find them dead?

[grassfarmer]

I'm always puzzled why people think calving out on pasture starting in late April is risky or frightening wondering how all the possible scenarios that might arise could be dealt with. I see it as a matter of proper job allocation - the farmer/rancher's job is to create the conditions for the cow to succeed. The genetics, the feeding, the form, the environmental adaption of your herd to your conditions, the time of calving and most of all eliminating stress. If you do your job properly the cow can be left to get on with her job. A lot of guys don't trust their cows and feel the need to watch them 24/7, pull calves into the barn on sledges, moving pairs etc not realising the more they interfere the more problems they tend to create. We only assist in the 1-2% range at calving time - the very occasional malpresentation, maybe 1 a year to help suckle. We are calving in 2 groups at the moment both about half a mile from the yard, checked twice a day mainly to keep up with tagging as they are purebreds. 40 calves on the ground now and I had to handle the first one of the year tonight - a cow with breach twins 1 live, 1 dead. Walked her home on foot, no big deal. I find if they really need help they come willingly. 10 heifers calved so far, haven't touched one and don't expect to. Awesome little mothers if you just give them space and let them get on with their job.

[WiltonRanch]

I'm curious, when calving on big areas of grass like that, and those numbers, what happens when a cow has a breech calf, twins, or worse yet needs a c-section or uterine prolapse? Bullet to the head or just find them dead?

We usually check them close. Especially bad weather. Knock on wood no c sections for 10 years here. If you need to get them in most guys have some facilities to work them or are good with a rope horse. Brought my old horse in and am getting another one from a neighbour to take the edges off. Still some real Cowboys out west left lol. My grappa was one of the best back of the truck ropers in his day. Some guys run big numbers and calve out with little supervision but realize their cattle are bred for that too. Bad bags poor mothers etc don't stay. Calving ease and waspy vigorous cattle are a plus. We calve about 200 mature females on 30 acres and have windbreaks to run them into if weather is bad. Problem now the mud is so bad we can't pen them up there because calves have been lost. Usually it's not an issue. Cows generally calve and we move a bunch of pairs onto fresh ground periodically. Have some higher land but not enough wind shelters. If the wet don't get them the wind will.

[WiltonRanch]

I'm always puzzled why people think calving out on pasture starting in late April is risky or frightening wondering how all the possible scenarios that might arise could be dealt with. I see it as a matter of proper job allocation - the farmer/rancher's job is to create the conditions for the cow to succeed. The genetics, the feeding, the form, the environmental adaption of your herd to your conditions, the time of calving and most of all eliminating stress. If you do your job properly the cow can be left to get on with her job. A lot of guys don't trust their cows and feel the need to watch them 24/7, pull calves into the barn on sledges, moving pairs etc not realising the more they interfere the more problems they tend to create. We only assist in the 1-2% range at calving time - the very occasional malpresentation, maybe 1 a year to help suckle. We are calving in 2 groups at the moment both about half a mile from the yard, checked twice a day mainly to keep up with tagging as they are purebreds. 40 calves on the ground now and I had to handle the first one of the year tonight - a cow with breach twins 1 live, 1 dead. Walked her home on foot, no big deal. I find if they really need help they come willingly. 10 heifers calved so far, haven't touched one and don't expect to. Awesome little mothers if you just give them space and let them get on with their job.

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[Hamloc]

Grassfarmer after reading Woodland's post and your responses I think what you said is undoubtedly correct but how you said it not so much. Woodland is fighting horrendous spring weather and you basically say well if you did it this way you wouldn't have a problem. If I was Woodland I would want to punch you in the nose(metaphorically speaking of course)! Spring snowstorms and dragging calves out of the mud is never fun. There is no doubt more space is always better but not always an option. Woodland I wish you the best of luck!

[grassfarmer]

WR, what we find works really nice with our banked grass is a version of the Sandhills system - say you start with 100 cows in a group, by the time a week or 10 days has passed you'll have maybe 30 calved. Then move the pregnant cows out to new ground leaving the pairs behind. It is so much easier than moving pairs out of a herd. Leaves your calves grouped by age and calving cows always on clean ground which greatly helps combat scours or other health issues.

[WiltonRanch]

WR, what we find works really nice with our banked grass is a version of the Sandhills system - say you start with 100 cows in a group, by the time a week or 10 days has passed you'll have maybe 30 calved. Then move the pregnant cows out to new ground leaving the pairs behind. It is so much easier than moving pairs out of a herd. Leaves your calves grouped by age and calving cows always on clean ground which greatly helps combat scours or other health issues.

I heard of that before. Interesting.

[smcgrath76]

We started calving last Thursday just as it started snowing. I lost 10 last weekend, with quite a few being from heifers. They had about 20 minutes to be up and nursing or they just were too cold/wet/muddy to make a go of it. Cows missing the bedding or turning around to calve and making mud are tough to control.
Even the grass they had was mud. I couldn't keep up with them. That said we are calving nearly 2 weeks sooner than usual due to some circumstances last summer. We have been running 10 to 15 per day for the last 10 days. Snowing/raining again this week and I have dragged a lot of calves out of the mud, tubed a bunch and had some overnighters. We keep opening gates and moving cattle further out.
I don't really think about backwards/prolapse/c section cows or checking for that stuff. I think in the last 10 years I may have helped a dozen cows total (including heifers). I tend to agree with GF about larger spaces. The only challenge with larger areas is catching and weighing the purebreds. We don't tag the commercial calves at birth.
If I do help a cow at all for any reason (pull, malpresentation, milking out), she gets the "orange tag of death" before she leaves the chute. That way she leaves in the fall 100% of the time. I may cull the odd good cow, but I for sure get rid of the make work ones that way.

[grassfarmer]

Another idea for guys that are tired of winter/spring calving - have you considered fall calving? It's not as crazy as it sounds with the climate of western Canada. We've always had a few but are currently expanding that herd and may go to half fall/half April-May in part to get away from breeding cows in the heat of summer down here. Mid August to late September gives you a 2 cycle window to calf when the weather is often some of the best in the year. It gives calves time to grow a bit before winter hits and with less protein in the grass than in spring scour issues are rare. We have always had better conception rates breeding in November than in July which sounds counter-intuitive. You need to have grass in the fall though - wouldn't work if your pastures are shot by the end of July so maybe has less of a fit in very dry areas. If you can grow good grass in fall or have hay regrowth to put cows on they will be fat going into winter. Given that start they need feed of lower quality than spring calvers over winter and you can let them lose a lot of condition over winter as they will regain it quickly come summer. Mine have been on greenfeed this winter and are carrying more condition than they need be. Supplementing calves with creep is efficient in this system through the colder months. I don't think i'd try it with high milking/low fleshing genetics but it works well with our cows.
I guess a lot wouldn't consider it as it gets away from the usual "wean into the auction" during the fall run mindset but it offers up alternate marketing opportunities. Lightweight calves are traditionally in high demand as grassers in April/May or you can sell them as bigger calves/yearlings early in the fall run when prices are often higher. What I really like is that it removes stress from the system - not calving through tough spring conditions and not weaning late fall when pneumonia problems are at their worst. I always let the fall calvers self wean which is effortless.