Mad Cow Not in Canada

[rusty1]

I visited a few days ago with a vet assistant that uses the lab in Edmonton alot. A CFIA vet there told the vet assistant that prior to May 20 the lab was training a bunch of new staff. Of cource the only way to train staff is with the real thing. Therefore the lab was full of scabies, cronic wasting desease, & Jakobs-disease inorder to train people. The vet also told her that it is ALMOST certain that the old cow's sample was contaminated, but she would not say that in public. Hmm

[ivbinconned]

the folowing was posted by grassfarmer last july 28thposted Jul 26, 2003 13:23
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I attended a talk given by Mark Purdey (the Englishman with the alternative theory on BSE)last night.
Most interesting thing was when one knowledgeable member of the audience highlighted the fact that we have NOT in fact had a BSE case. Seems it was a simple error in the testing lab that was not following a set security protocol. The lab contained samples of UK BSE infected brains for teaching purposes and speculation is that they may have got it mixed up. The proof of the mistake is that the DNA sample of the "infected" cow does not match ANY of the 2700 head of cattle slaughtered! No wonder none of these 2700 head tested positive for the disease. If this could all be true what can we do about it? Is anyone prepared to say "we made a mistake" and Internationally would anyone believe us at this late stage?

[grassfarmer]

I still believe that the contamination in the Lab is one of the possible causes of our current crisis. CFIA now insist that the DNA sample from the cow in question did match some of the slaughtered cattle. If contamination of the sample didn't occur in the Lab it points to a "sporadic" case of BSE and proves that the accepted theory that it is contracted from feed is nonsense. Think about it - every herd mate (cohort) of the infected cow was slaughtered and none had the disease. All the herdmates that ate the same feed growing up didn't contract it so it cannot be the case that it was contaminated feed. Just like in Europe trade politics have taken over and the actual BSE problem has not been thought about. Shame on the Scientific community for being too spineless to practice real Science and get to the bottom of this.

[cowman]

If it is possible that this whole thing was a false sample then we need to ask the next question. Was this incompetence or intentional? And if it was intentional then who benifits?
It's almost like some of the bonehead things governments do. We wonder how stupid can they be when in fact they weren't being stupid at all...only wanted to appear that way! Somebody benifits big time!
I have often wondered if this BSE is such a horrible disease, how come more animals aren't showing up? Supposedly(?) they are testing more animals, so more should be showing up, right?
Another thing is where did this disease come from? Apparently another prion disease that showed up suddenly was "Gulf War Syndrome" which America tried to blame on Sadams' chemicals. But a funny thing happened there...only American soldiers got it not the Iraq people! Were the American soldiers guinea pigs in an experiment gone bad? I mean they were all given mega shots before going to war. Scary stuff if it is true!
Did the mad cow prion happen sporadically or did it come out of a test tube?

[rusty1]

cowman - "incompetence or intentional" either way some heads need to roll. You don't fly in airplanes hoping that the airline industry has some trainee's up there and blame incompetence when things go of the rails. In the scientific lab, there is NO room for error. As well our judicial system put people away for life on DNA samples, and the slightest wiff of "reasonable doubt" let murders off the hook. I think that the CCA and ABP need to fund a independent audit of the past 6mo. and get some stuff out in the open!

[pandiana]

I have some history in laboratory research and yes, screw-ups happen. However, in this case it is not just a matter of a bacteria or virus or prion infecting a lab bench of petri dish. I believe that the BSE diagnosis is based on histology, or slides taken of the cows brain which show the plaques typically found in this disease. They would probably have cut many sections of this brain, some of which would have been tested by several labs. In order for the screw up theory to hold, it seems to me that the entire brain would have to have been mislabelled or planted, whatever. Still possible but rather unlikely.

[henbent]

pandiana, Conspiracy theories abound. However, having had some government background myself, I also know that coverup or CYOA (Cover Your Own A-s) is common policy. I don't for a second believe that several or many labs were involved in testing the positive sample. Apparently at the time of this occurrence little testing was being done! Common sense is a liability in gov't work. Why didn't off spring of this animal have BSE? I have little trust in gov'ts Prov or Fed these days.

[cowman]

Now assuming this cows brain was intact and assuming that was where all the samples came from,then she must have had BSE. Didn't they track down some of her offspring using DNA?
I hope that a lab would have certain safeguards in place to eliminate cross contamination or a massive screwup?
I like to think that our labs are up to snuff and accurate? Were these government labs or private labs doing contract work? Maybe we do need an independent consultant to look at this thing and report back to us if the whole deal was on the up and up?

[henbent]

cowman, Good idea, an inquiry into the whole mess, but it will never happen. That is what coverup is all about. Smoke and mirrors, legislation to keep the public from seeing what has happened. On and on it goes around in a circle. "It is not in the public interest to reveal the facts" that is the way gov't operates, during a crisis.

[kato]

Apparently, the reason it took so long to find the related cattle with the DNA was that the sample they were using was a "poor one". They didn't find the related cattle until they went back and got a "better" sample from the brain.

I would like to see them use another sample from this brain, and test it again. If the quality of DNA recovered was different in each sample, then the prion test should be redone as well. It would put a lot of uncertainty to rest, to my thinking.

[ALICIA]

I heard from a friend that has a vet friend from that area and she told my friend that that lab was just a joke.

[cowman]

So I have to ask again was this a government lab or a private one? Do we even have any government labs left in Alberta? Seems like they privatized just about everything else.
Another question I have is how are they going to go about counting the cows when they bring in "cow registration"? I assume they just won't take your word for it? Who will count the cows? Will it be a sweetheart deal for someone? If you slip them a few bucks or a bottle will your cowherd suddenly grow?

[pandiana]

Some additional comment on testing:
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/anima/heasan/disemala/bseesb/bsefaqe.shtml

"As part of CFIA’s active, targeted surveillance program for BSE, the provincial government in Alberta tested a cow that had been condemned at slaughter and found not suitable for human consumption. They notified the CFIA that their preliminary findings could not rule out BSE. Further tests were then performed by CFIA’s National Centre for Foreign Animal Disease in Winnipeg and final results were received from the World Reference Laboratory at Weybridge, United Kingdom on May 20, 2003 confirming the presence of BSE."
This would indicate that slides were evaluated in Alberta, Winnipeg and UK and all three would have to misread the tissue. I contend that the only possible skrew-up would be getting the wrong brain.

[grassfarmer]

Yes Pandiana, the original report of the incident that I got did suggest a brain mix up being the cause of the mis-diagnosis of BSE. Implication being that they actually had UK cattle brains in that lab to train staff on.

[cowman]

Well I guess we'll never know now. I mean if you screwed up and used the wrong brain would you admit it? Sort of like the story "Frankenstein" where Igor dug up the wrong body? Well that created a monster that couldn't be stopped...sort of like the monster we have today?