The tagging crew

[grassfarmer]

That doesn't really surprise me Sean, cows manage better without human interference. I think that the upset factor will be worse calving when the grass is green like you do versus calving on banked grass as we do. We find the calves hang with the mothers better but once you have tall green grass more of the calf's wild instincts come in to play and they creep under fences to hide in long grass. I hate calving that late - cows separated from the calves and can't get to them, udders getting hefted, calves scouring, dehydrated calves, maggot fly troubles. Each to their own but an April 15th to May 30th calving periods is what I prefer - ideally they would all calve first cycle too !

[perfecho]

Interesting observations........Here, since they are mostly purebred, I have nothing to compare them to. But, they normally calve on swath grazing...this year I am seeding 1/4 of their "winter" site to grass and will do banked grass. It seems to take only a few days for the cows to accept the quad driving thru them without getting up much..unless I get real close..and majority of calves I can walk right up to or grab with hook on foot. Do have to "follow" a few the hook and quad, but try not to run them...although occasionally I do have to.
Their wintering site is usually down to a 60 acre piece during calving, quite open which really helps. My greatest fear of going to spring calving was the "wildness" of cows and calves on open fields, but maybe the older cows are still helping to keep calmness in heard....I also hand pail feed my replacement heifers so think that helps.
Have not noticed losing calves due to handling....once they are on the ground and sucking, really have had very few issues. Occasionally, if mom has too much milk and it gets really hot, there has been an issue, but seem to be culling the real heavy milkers. ( Which helped when Jan/Feb calving.)
Like GF, like that later April to June 1 calving....if there is a calf without a tag, it was pretty much born after June 1st, but this year you certainly didn't want to be too early in April.
But, all this is easier as well, due to lowering numbers....at about 60 and if any neighbors sell the rented land, it will speed up my retirement plan (or lack of).

[woodland]

It seems here if we don’t handle the calves when they’re a day old or less they are way more wild. The last 6-8 to calve sometimes don’t get tagged and those are the crazy buggers at weaning time. I guess they also missed branding as well which wouldn’t help.

[perfecho]

Well....as I was posting this morning, there was a gnawing feeling ..usually when you boast about how good things were going....and yeah, after tagging first calf, found a dead one....mamma has a bigger udder, 13 years old and I had put her on the "fired" list a week ago. Looks like her calf wasn't sucking, but I also don't get too upset anymore. The 20-30 minutes I spend with the cows each day sure beats the 4- 6 hours of feeding, handling, etc in the "old way"....so I feel this is a "more than fair" trade off. Also the cheque f4rom cull cows in June doesn't hurt.

[grassfarmer]

I think that's your "last calved" on green grass affect Woodland rather than any positive effect of handling at day old.

Working on these projects gets old perfecho - I had one older cow to bring in this year with one dry quarter and the other three welded shut - no way a calf could ever have started on them. Thankfully we get very, very few issues like these.

A further thought on your observation Sean - won't your purebreds have less heterosis by definition than your commercials? I wonder if that accounts for the more trouble/poorer survival versus handling them?

[smcgrath76]

I think that's your "last calved" on green grass affect Woodland rather than any positive effect of handling at day old.

Working on these projects gets old perfecho - I had one older cow to bring in this year with one dry quarter and the other three welded shut - no way a calf could ever have started on them. Thankfully we get very, very few issues like these.

A further thought on your observation Sean - won't your purebreds have less heterosis by definition than your commercials? I wonder if that accounts for the more trouble/poorer survival versus handling them?

A lot of our commercials are straightbred AN. We were selling a lot of F1 heifers prior to our latest expansion. They are all bred the same, fed the same and handled the same, with about the same amount of outcrossing. We don't have issues with calves that are a few hours old/day old so much, other than trying to catch them. If we happen to tag/weigh a calf that is still wet, it seems to mess life up. I don't think I can replace birthweights with DNA testing just yet.

Forgot to mention why I like May. The only real wrecks I have ever had calving cows were in February (purchased heifers) and April. I pretty much strongly dislike the month of April (at least the first 25 days) for calving cows.

[grassfarmer]

Yeah, I never tag a calf until it's suckled for sure as I know that can mess up the process. I still need to catch them on day one or you can't catch them after that - heifer's calves are slower for a couple of days.

On the weighing thing why bother? I've finally quit weighing bull calves this year as it really was meaningless. We know we don't have calving trouble genetics in our gene pool so really I'm weighing bulls to satisfy customer curiosity - I know the cattle and the genetics - they don't. How can people unfamiliar with my herd judge whether a 70lb calf out of a heifer or a 92lb calf out of a cow will produce smaller birthweights given that they are out of the same gene pool? Maybe more of an issue with the mainstream purebred guys where most are outcrossing to widely varying genetics. I wonder how many purebred guys accurately report birthweights anyway? I'm to the point it's got to be built on trust - if guys don't trust what I'm selling they can go bull shop elsewhere.

[GDR]

Yeah, I never tag a calf until it's suckled for sure as I know that can mess up the process. I still need to catch them on day one or you can't catch them after that - heifer's calves are slower for a couple of days.

On the weighing thing why bother? I've finally quit weighing bull calves this year as it really was meaningless. We know we don't have calving trouble genetics in our gene pool so really I'm weighing bulls to satisfy customer curiosity - I know the cattle and the genetics - they don't. How can people unfamiliar with my herd judge whether a 70lb calf out of a heifer or a 92lb calf out of a cow will produce smaller birthweights given that they are out of the same gene pool? Maybe more of an issue with the mainstream purebred guys where most are outcrossing to widely varying genetics. I wonder how many purebred guys accurately report birthweights anyway? I'm to the point it's got to be built on trust - if guys don't trust what I'm selling they can go bull shop elsewhere.

Guys want to know birth weights whether they mean much or not. I bought a bull a couple years ago, seller had him at 72lbs birth weight and used a star rating for calving ease in the sale catalogue. This bull was a "3 star heifer bull", I checked the dam to make sure it wasn't a heifer so thought all was good. When I got the papers turned out he was a 72lbs twin but that little detail wasn't in the catalogue. Needless to say he hasn't been used on heifers again. Moral of the story, more info the better.

[woodland]

I think that's your "last calved" on green grass affect Woodland rather than any positive effect of handling at day old.

They calve at home in a 20 acre field just like all the others. The only difference is there’s the special (old, lame, twins, etc..) pairs with them instead. I can’t chalk the difference up to anything else.

[woodland]

Grassfarmer nice cage. We added a mangate to ours so you can catch an animal in the field for treatment or pulling bulls and load them on the trailer or into a squeeze. If someone is by themselves you throw the cage and squeeze on the wagon and bring the cow home in a squeeze. Definitely raise a few eyebrows on the way home from the neighbors. Works great though.



After 30 years a few patches have been required 😉