Whining farmers

[Muttley]

WOW!!!! I go away for the day and all hell breaks loose on Agri-Ville.
I am surprised at some of these responses, they are certainly from open minded people and not somebody that usually spends New Years chained to a tree.

Well I tend not to be so open minded at times. What enough is saying is they don't know enough about agriculture to form enough of a opinion on it. He's just ranting crap. Mr. enough guys like you are what gives people like us in farming trouble getting help from the powers to be. You don't have any knowledge about agriculture at all do you?
So go back to your tree in the hills and you had better not eat my food I produced!!!

[sewen]

Enough your last name wouldn't be Vanclief would it?

[cakadu]

What makes me sad is that enough is putting a voice to an attitude that prevails out there with respect to farmers in general. This person is not the only one who feels like this by any stretch of the imagination.

I understand the viewpoint - don't agree with it - but I understand. What else are non-producers supposed to think when the media portrays us as a bunch of whiners?

Think back to the rally on parliament hill about 2 years ago - hard to make urban folk relate to producers not getting paid enough when what the media showed was a bunch of bright, shiny new combines on "the hill".

What happens when an announcement is made about aid being given to producers - $800 million about 2 years ago comes to mind - and what is the first thing that producer groups like the Canadian Federation of Agriculture or the group in Ontario that are now the International Farming Federation do - they complain that it isn't enough money. (I do have to admit that I get a little ticked when these groups don't acknowledge that it was more than they had pre-announcement.)

Granted it's not enough, but what the general public does not realize is that so much of that money is caught up in administrative red tape and the producer doesn't see much of it.

Also look at the aid package that came to producers this year for the BSE problem - what they don't realize is that the cow/calf operator got very little of that money - most of it went to the biggest feedlots in the province (Alberta).

In a perfect world we would be able to convince the powers that be to raise food prices to the level that would allow producers to earn a decent living from. It's sad when less than 10% of an average family's disposable income is spent on food.

We don't live in a perfect world and it's hard to get non-producers to understand.

Food is essential for us to live and what I find hard is when non-essential things like alcohol and cigarettes go up in price, there is a hue and cry for a short time, but people go right on buying them just the same. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could see prices charged for food that were more in line what it cost to produce it?

The long and the short of it is, I can't get mad at people like enough when we as producers haven't exactly been portrayed in the best light.

[bombay_43]

As I read through the various topics today, I have to laugh out loud! Thank you to Enough for giving me possibly the biggest laugh so far! If you were a tree, I would hugggg you! LOL

At first I became extremely angry by the comments that Enough has made in various places, but after reading everyones comments, my mental illness set in, and I lost it! LOL

Cowman: You keep your head so cool all the time! It would be good if Enough got BSE??? LOL

Muttley: You always have such well thought out things to say! “Holy Crap Batman”??? You’re opinion stinks??? LOL

Countryguy: Thank you for that eloquent definition about raping the land, Websters should be worried about you.

Kato: making that lovely comment about how nice we all were to Enough! LOL

I noticed throughout these topics, wherever Enough has put in his 3 cents worth (inflation), he has managed to get a rise out of us all. He is NOT interested in any responses from us. He managed to get everyones blood pressure up and that is what he intended. What he did not intend was to make any of us feel good! A good laugh will do that you know, and that is exactly what Enough did for me. Really! Read all our responses. LOL

Now sit down and picture exactly what Enough is like as an individual. Read what he has written, and what others wrote about him. Close your eyes and make a mental picture of this person. I have an idea of what all the regulars here look like just by your various comments. I feel like I know many of you, although many times I come in just to read and not write.

Enough is a sad, insignificant, possibly comical looking fellow, who leads a very miserable existence, and wants someone else to be just as miserable. He believes that the earth was created with just his pleasures in mind, and has remained miserable about the fact that someone had the audacity to kick him out of the Garden of Eden! A wonderful place where fruits, vegetables, and wildlife grew in abundance. No pollution, no fertilizers, herbicides or pesticides. Where you could eat anything that grew and hunt all the wild animals with no price attached. (notice I didn’t mention anything about naked people running around) And then along came that damned “F” word…. the FARMER!

Need I say more? We are sorry Enough, but the world changes, and you must change with it!

Thanks Enough, you’ve brightened all our worlds. I can only hope your spirit has been lifted as much as you have lifted all of ours!

[ALICIA]

I've leaned that you can't change people, they have to learn for themself.
My dad told me when I was a child, that some day in this country you will not be able to keep a cow because when people start to starve to death they become like animals. At one time Africa was the most furtal place on earth, and look at it now. Over population is the down fall, and their is not enought land in the world to grow a steady vegitarion diet, but you can't tell non-farmers this because they just don't get it.
All things are born to die. I'f Agriculture dies, the rest of the people will follow.

[ianben]

Enough you wrote.
Your B.S.E. problem is a result of your own greed.
I farm in UK and even here no farmer was in any way KNOWINGLY responsible for BSE.

It was a previously unknown and all practiceses carried out where thought to be safe. Farmers here fed food produced by feed companies with no knowledge of the ingreedients however meat and bone meal was concidered safe.

The money paid out by our governments in respect of BSE is not a subsidy to farmers but INSURANCE on my/your behalf that nvCJD does not affect our children.

This is why governments react so strongly to a single case of BSE because of the unknown threat and cost to future generations.

Is this money well spent, Enough?

[cowman]

I suspect "Enough" isn't real but someone stirring the pot! Consider that things were getting a wee bit dull around here and when that happens we suddenly get some outrageous cretin who says all these outrageous things? Sort of like "God Bless the USA"?
Which is allright. Keeps things hopping. Oh and by the way I see Strawboss is back in town! hmmm???

[dnach]

'ENOUGH' I think what you expressed, unfortunately, is a misconseption of many who do not understand agriculture and it's contributions. What does it cost you to go to work for the year? I'll guarantee the average farmer spends more in the local economy in one year than you do in a life time. Just look at the economy in Nort West Sask. in general right now for example, three years of drought and BSE has devestated just about every business in the area. The financial effects of the farmer reach out farther than you can imagine.

[Muttley]

Enough, the more I thought about it the more I started to realize your right and I am wrong!!

I say we all let our farms go back to nature, I'll just breed the cows and let them calve every year and not sell them.(no losses means more profit right enough) No more grain industry means that the government won't have to bail us out( right enough).

As for this site I guess I won't be around much any more as I have a few tree's to hug (see you soon enough)

By the way enough what do we eat?

[pandiana]

Enough already

“I believe that one must make your own way in this world without the aid of others.”

I think I could guarantee that virtually every farmer out there today would echo this sentiment. They would like nothing better than making a modest living without any help from anyone. Most farmers are fiercely independent and want desperately to be self sufficient.

First of all, what agriculture has been experiencing over the past decade has been an economic depression as a result of the gradual erosion of profitability through rising input costs (cost of land, machinery, fertilizer, utilities, fuel, paid labor etc.) Income, on the other hand, has not increased and in many cases has actually gone down. As rsomer pointed out, as a commodity, we market our produce on an open market. Essentially, we get paid whatever the market deems as ‘fair’ not what our breakeven costs would determine. As a business man, if your costs increase you would immediately pass these costs to your customers by increasing the selling price of your product or service. We have virtually no leverage in negotiating a fair price for our commodity. The cattle industry is among those producers who have even less influence on price because our produce has a finite shelf life and must be sold when it is ready. Who is controlling this fair market value…government, multinationals? Because our breakeven price is far above the price received, this could very well be perceived as a subsidy of the food industry by the primary agriculture producer. This is not a problem unique to Canadian agriculture but a scenario familiar to most agriculture sectors worldwide, including the US and UK. I would hazard a guess that very few farmers today have access to many of the social safeguards that the average employee takes for granted such as unemployment insurance, paid medical and dental plans. Nor do most have a paycheck that arrived at regular intervals, in some cases may only be once a year. Most do not consider a wage for themselves or the spouses and children although most contribute directly to farm labor. Most livestock producers are ‘on call’ seven days a week with hours that vary from a few to 18 to 20 hrs a day during calving and harvesting without overtime or stress pay. According to the government, agriculture is one of the most high risk occupations in Canada. Many do not have RRSP, access to company supported child care, maternity leave, paid holidays, or sick time.

Secondly, picture this. A livestock producer looks out over his herd of cattle that he has carefully selected over many years. He his very proud of his cows because they represent the culmination of the fruits of his labor…the many sleepless nights during calving, doctoring sick calves and generally worrying until you see them out in the spring to pasture. The cows are contented and producing those big shiny calves that will be sold in the fall and hopefully will see you through one of anomalies of the cattle cycle where prices rise and will carry you one more year. This typical farmer loves this land. It may have been in his family for several generations. He knows every inch of it like his backyard. He has picked rocks off his field, cleaned up brush piles, fenced, planted and harvested. He or his family puts up bluebird houses, stocks dugouts with fish, leaves wetlands for waterfowl, fences off creeks to protect them from runoff and woodlots to protect trees. He would love to do more if he had more income.

But, there is no rain. Pastures dry up. First cuts of hay are half of what they would normally be. You have to buy feed early because there is no pasture. Half the yield-double the price! So much for your breakeven. What are producers’ choices? He can sell this herd that has taken a lifetime to build. Many opted for this. Many who didn’t wish they had. Or you could ‘hang on to the cows tail and she will pull you through’ and hope things will work out like cattle producers have down over the years because good times will come round again. Unfortunately next year there is an even worse drought and the year after the same. Cost of feeding cows in some cases has tripled. Has there been a threefold increase in the retail price? No. This is part of the cattle cycle. Livestock producers can only expect to make money 6 years out of 10 the experts tell us.

Now add BSE to this picture. Without a doubt, some livestock producers where doing alright up to this point. They had a large enough paid for land base, drought and grasshoppers had avoided them. BSE however, was a great leveler for all cattle producers in Canada. This spring was full of hope with decent winter snowfall, optimistic demand for beef and beef products and pretty good prices. May 20th put a end to this optimism. Since that time, many of us have had little to no income. Your choice to sell out has disappeared unless you want to sell your $1000 for $180 a cow. Much of the day to day family expense was paid for by selling cows and bulls that were no longer producing well, a large proportion of which were because of infertility. Fall calf sales all too often went to pay off operating loans for feed, seed and fuel as well land or other mortgage payments. The disaster relief programs sponsored by various levels of government for me personally have amounted to less than 1% of my expenses. There is absolutely no way that disaster relief will solve the economic problems of agriculture today.

The hope of many farmers was that the growth of equity over the years from increase in land values, growth of their herds and accumulation of assets in general would one day serve as their retirement income or if they were very fortunate, would allow them to help get their children started in farming as well. As most of us would agree, there is absolutely no way for a young person to start out in agriculture today without significant help from family as the investment would be prohibitive. Seeing what their parents are going through, most wouldn’t want it. The economic depression in agriculture, several years of drought and grasshoppers, and now BSE has seen the equity in many farms drained down to feed livestock in the every more feeble hope that ‘things will turn around’. For many, worry has turned to fear and fear has turned to despair.

Let me be very clear. What you have been reading here and in these forums is not whining. These are the facts that livestock producers and agriculture in general have to deal with every day as they try to make decisions that will affect our future and yours. If there was any way that I could make you pay more for the food you eat I would be very happy to do that. Let me know if you have any ideas that might help. If not, be prepared to let our food be produced in underdeveloped countries by multinational companies who control the entire production chain. And you will pay what the market will bear.

[ValueChainFX]

MEMO to enough

Most recently you would have read some interesting information about how support for the Canadian Agriculture industry is being handed out left right and center.

This new media blitz will also include several news spots and even involved some high priority government and industry specialist trying to shift blame for several of the issues faced by the ag sector.

In this memo you will need to understand that most primary producers don't really get much of these funds directly. Since the producers are such independent business people we can easily pull some shenanigans and give the general public the perception we are doing our share to help the grass roots but in reality help out other businesses that are more sophisticated and organized which in turn may give the perception we are doing our share for the ag industry.

Agri-ville is one of the few tools the primary producer has to communicate within the grass roots community and therefore should be avoided unless you want to read the truth about what is actually happening.

Please enough, don't stir the pot with this group they may be motivated to get organized and our government bodies and present system of providing food at below costs may be jeopardized.

Most public are unaware of these realities, but I fear they will soon find out. So please enough this memo is to direct you to learn the facts, and than make your position.

My MEMO is done this way as I am sure this is how you are used to communication.

Thank you

[cowman]

Personally I'm all for more subsidies and Government tit! I think the government should declare all the farmers and ranchers as an endangered species and pour on the money!
Pay us not to grow things but to supply a playground or education center for the city slickers. You know you could go out in the country and visit your friendly local idiot farmer sort of thing. Watch him pitch hay with a fork and stand around with a piece of straw in his mouth?
Forget slaughtering animals. We could just keep them for the city tourists and when they got to old the vet could euthenize them. Of course we'd need some animal birth control or the pesky things would soon eat us out of house and home! We could also let the poplars and willow take over the land, not to mention that good old natural Canada thistle so we could have a place for the wildlife to roam! Perhaps we could process our euthenized livestock so that our wildlife could have more to eat. I suppose we'd need to test this livestock...after all we wouldn't want the coyotes and magpies getting mad cow, now would we?
And the guys like ENOUGH would be happy because we would now be providing a useful service instead of wasting our time producing something nobody wants!

[enough]

I understand that what many of you say is out of anger to me for disagreeing with your points of view. You will in time realize that my points of view are the majority. I can only strive to understand your ideals. God put us on this earth to borrow his land not to be wastefull of it. One needs to learn we are only here for a short time but what we leave we leave for future generations.
Man has ruined much of the earth, we tear down his forests, we have over used his oceans, we take the natural oils and gases from the earth and use them to destruct our planets protection.
We spend more money to explore Mars than to take care of Earth.
I am sorry if this offends some of you but perhaps it your narrow minds that need to be awakened.

[Muttley]

If anybody has a narrow mind I think it is you enough.
I am now speechless on how to react to this, please somebody help!!

[cakadu]

Actually, when I read enough's latest post, I have to say that there is a lot that I agree with in there and certainly understand what he is trying to say.

Certainly the majority of farmers are good stewards of the land - after all, if we don't preserve it, it won't be here. I can only speak for myself, but one of the reasons we farm is because we do want to look after the land. I agree with you wholeheartedly that we are just borrowing what is here - it isn't ours to keep or use up.

Think of how much crap is added to the environment with all these people driving around in SUV's? How much fuel is being wasted every day and what sort of toxic soup is being added to the atmosphere? May I be so bold, enough, to ask what you drive?

I cannot for the life of me fathom spending $285 million to send some little robot to Mars to take pictures and pick up a thimble full of dust to analyze. I guess at the rate we are going, we are going to have to find some other place to inhabit because we are wrecking this one.

There are some farmers out there who are setting aside land and preserving wetlands and doing what they can to ensure that we all have safe drinking water. Not everyone is doing it yet, but we are getting there. What are our urban cousins doing? How many times have you been out to the national parks (or even the roadsides for that matter) and seen all the garbage strewn about? We want to preserve these areas, yet people continually pollute and degrade them. How many weekend warriors are there out there that have to take their quads, snowmobiles and lord knows what else into the mountains without a care in the world, other than it is their right to be able to blow off steam and de-stress?

What can you do about oil companies that get leases and then don't reclaim them? There is some horrendous number of leases and cut blocks etc. that have to be reclaimed and the companies have all agreed to do it - but it's not enforced.


So you see, enough, we do have many of the same values in mind and at heart. We may just be coming at them from a little bit different direction.