The new blood test

[Bruce14]

No cowman we will TELL THEM THE TRUTH AS WE KNOW IT. Have you not read that there have been 143 cases of vCJD in the U.K. out of 60,000,000 people and around 200,000 confirmed cases of BSE. 143 people have contracted the disease in a hotbed of contaminated product and a couple of those have been said to have been vegetarians. The U.K. is also famous for its processed meats. If you can grind it up and put in a casing or any other form they would eat it as there ancestors did.

I realize that vCJD is not a disease anyone would choose. I also know several more that I wish too avoid.

I still agree with you on the need for increased testing but your further fearmongering does little to inform anyone of the facts.

[rusty1]

enough - if what you say is so critical,then explain whay beef consmprion had gone up an unprecedented 60 %

[cowman]

Bruce: Am I fearmongering? Or am I asking questions that need to be answered? What is the extent of our BSE problem? Do we really know? Maybe we have just scratched the surface? Who knows? Did the UK have any idea of what was going to happen when they got their first taste of BSE?
When(and if) we get a case of vCJD do you think the media will run with it? How will we explain our food safety problems then? Do you believe an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure?

[pandiana]

Yes cowman, I agree with Bruce on this point. You are fearmongering when you ignore the statistics associated with the risk of vCJD, and reinforcing unwarranted fear of beef in particular. I believe, like cakadu, that the correct perspective would suggest that 1, BSE is obviously a concern because it is devastating the beef industry. Why is this? In a large part it is fear associated with media response and the fact that the UK situation was not assessed early on as being as serious as it turned out to be. 2. ALL FOOD is at risk of being contaminated as recently reported for lettuce and spinach or other vegetables eaten raw or improperly prepared. 3. As cakadu also reported, our water is increasingly contaminated with pathogens that cause serious debilitating illness.

Many have quoted statistics that life cannot be lived without accepting some risk. We would never leave home, drink or eat if we didn't find a way of keeping these risks in perspective.

[jgstuart]

This is where we get into the murky world of perception vs science. Its true that you probably have a greater chance of being struck by lightning than of contracting vCJD, but in matters concerning food safety, perception is far more important than reality. While I believe its important to get the science out there, convincing the public is another matter. In many cases (Europe in particular)...the vast majority simply doesn't believe the science. Unfortunately, in the early stages of their BSE crisis the science was wrong, and now many have lost all confidence in anything they now tell them. Perhaps even more damaging, is that many perceive (rightly or wrongly) that "science" is controlled (financially) by the major agrifood corporations. We have seen the same thing in the grains industry. Although there is no science to indicate any problem with the consumption of genetically modified organisms....the European public will simply not buy anything associated with genetic engineering. Japan is another case in point. And while we may chastise the governments of these nations for not taking a more progressive "scientific" view, they are simply responding to the concerns of their own constituents. After all...they all want to be re-elected. I guess what I'm saying is that food safety can be a very emotional issue, and when that emotion is fear, you are fighting an uphill battle. My own view is that we are at a crossroads in the beef industry. We either make an agressive move to test every animal and market our product as the #1 product in the world...or we sit back, hoping for the best and waiting for the next shoe to drop. (The next case of BSE). Unfortunately I feel that shoe will drop...its just a matter of when. I realize that testing every animal does not come without a cost (however that cost seems to be coming down and I believe that it is feasible.)The first rule of marketing any product is...the customer is always right....even if they're wrong.

[raymondb]

I wander who started the fearmongering about the human risks associated with BSE infected animals-was it the politicians, the media, or science or something else?? The producer is suffering the most today because of the fearmongering yet what will the consequences be to the people who started this when it is proven that we have little to be concerned about when considering the safety of beef on the shelf as it is related to contamination as a result of BSE.

[pandiana]

Keeping risk in perspective does not in any way suggest that we should not deal with public perception. And I certainly support an aggressive move towards determining just exactly what the risk is. The most logical way of doing this at this time would be to do more testing. I would also agree that science does not have a lot of the answers regarding BSE and vCJD. We should always assess the credibility of science, politics and the media.

[ianben]

UK Bse cases by year of birth
74 1
75 0
76 2
77 10
78 6
79 41
80 102
81 262
82 1393
84 8069
85 11070
86 19749
87 36921
88 22245
89 12720
90 5723
91 4719
92 3443
93 2876
94 2020
95 976
96 46
97 31
98 14
99 1

I think these figures show how the fear from BSE started
From nothing to tens of thousands in ten years.
Feeding meat and bone was definatly the trigger for the explosion in cases.

However still one or two unexplaned cases.
If you test you will find the odd case that must always have been there.

To be honest CJD cases here will be the real test.
Any sign of a spike in numbers in the next twenty years and comsumers will switch out of beef
Too many alternatives!!

[cakadu]

Our friend ianben can probably attest to this, but it is my understanding that the problem with vCJD in the U.K. was the fact that the government at first stated that there was no risk to human health, which we now know in hindsight to be false. If you want a good explanation of what went wrong with the BSE in the U.K. pick up a book called "Mad Cows and Mothers Milk" by Doug Powell. It is a most interesting read.

Part of the reason that the U.K. and Europe fear genetically engineered food is because it was launched about the same time as the BSE crisis was taking shape over there and the people did not want to believe anything that the government had to say at that point in time.

I think we also have to look at the numbers and keep things in the proper perspective.

If we continue to be told what the scientists know - we cannot expect them to tell us what they don't know or worst of all guess because that will cause a mass panic which we don't need - then we have to decide for ourselves whether or not we trust the science.

We should test more, if and only if, we are prepared to deal with what arises from the testing. It will be great if we don't come up with any more cases, but what if we do - then what?

I am 100% in total agreement with informing consumers based on logic and science - not fearmongering and innuendo. That way we are able to make our choices based on solid information.

[kato]

I was talking to a sales rep from an animal health company, and she told me that a lot of the reason they even have an animal division, is to do research and groundwork for human health.

I would think that the next step for this new blood test, if it works out, is to develop one for humans.

[grassfarmer]

Interesting to read this story from the UK dated October 2003:
"There were 36,700 cases of BSE in 1992, which has been reduced to just over 500 so far this year(2003)

"There have been 77 confirmed BSE cases in the UK where the animals were born after August 1996, 49 of them in the past 12 months, eight in the past three weeks."

"The paper says that the "sudden" increase in cases will be looked at by the BSE advisory committee, Seac.
The group is expected to report that contaminated feed is the most plausible cause for the disease."

Now it looks like they are blaming contaminated feed on feed imported from other countries that didn't comply with the meat and bone meal ban until 2001.
Why will no-one take another look at Mark Purdeys theories because the old contaminated feed theory doesn't look to plausable.

[ALICIA]

You's are leading me to believe that if we test every animal for bse, we are sure to come up with another case.
Well I think that would be good because then the case would be cought and desposed of before it got into the food chain.
So I'm for testing every animal and this way we can say with a 100% that the beef is safe.
Plus it looks like that only the downer animals are being positive, so how many heathy looking animals got throw.
I belive that beef is suppost to hang for 7 to 10 days, so the shipping of box beef that cures on root will have to stop. So surely the test results can't be back within 10 days.
The excuse not to could only be that it would involve to much man power. And lab tech. do not work cheep. For the amould of beef that is killed daily, it would take a lot of personal to test each and every kill.
So I guess it is a cost issure. The goverment doesn't what to spend the money on food safty, it would rather see farmer not farming because by the time the people realize there is no food that goverment that is in power will be long gone, and its then someone else's problem. Pass the Buck

[cowman]

And should we trust the science Linda? The science that says one thing but does another? Example the 450 calves to be incinerated. Does this follow the science? Or the continuing ban on Canadian cattle to the USA? Is this supported by science?
Are hormones and GMO food safe? Science says yes...the consumer says no! Perhaps the consumer no longer trusts the scientists? Do you personally like the idea of GM foods or chemicals in our food?
When we see all these weird diseases what are we to think? I am sure BSE is partly a result of very unhealthy agricultural practices, including feeding animal parts to animals that are herbivores. At least the huge increase in the number of cases. But where did it come from? Where did all the cancer come from? When we pollute our world do we also set the stage to kill ourselves off?
Purdys ideas make sense to a dumb old farmer like me. Apparently they make sense to some scientists while others reject them outright. What do you think would happen if it was ever proven that this Mad Cow thing was the result of a chemical soup we put on our animals?
I have to agree with grassfarmer. We need to take a close look at Purdys theories. And we need independent scientists to do the work...not the old boys over at Monsanto and Pfizer?

[carebear300]

There must be something that I am missing about this whole debate. If you test every animal that is to be slaughtered there is no danger at all of an infected carcass getting into the food supply period is there? So get with the program and test every one and if an infected carcass is found dispose of that carcass end of the story and end of the danger to the consumer period. If this was done there would be no big hullaballoo over the discovery and I dont think it would even have to be announced to the media and the general public. Am I wrong? Is there something that I don't understand? Just an old farmer that doesn't catch on as fast as everybody else likely!!!!!

[ianben]

Cakadu
I am 100% in total agreement with informing consumers based on logic and science - not fearmongering and innuendo. That way we are able to make our choices based on solid information.

So am I and this is what UK government all along.
Logic and science says BSE will not cross species hence the claims beef was safe.
Then they thought it had and logic and science said lots of people will get CJD and die

Still a question in my mind as to wether it ever has.

The whole problem is there are no proven facts.

Just loads of theories all trying to match the facts to the history.

No theory seems to cover all bases in my view.

Time scale of BSE/CJD does not give quick answers.

No-one knows when beef from infected animals is safe The day before it tested positive, two weeks before or two years before.I dont believe we even know if anyboby would catch CJD if they ate it.

Logic and science got us into this mess but it will be a long time before they get us out.