What Are the Odds?

[cowman]

You know Rusty I remember the 70s fondly. I was young I was healthy I was making big bucks. I believe the Interest rates peaked about 1982 at the height of the devistatation of the NEP. You know, when Trudeau stold our oil?
I remember I cashed in Canada Savings bonds that yielded 19.5% interest and bought a brand new Oldsmobile for cash. The dealers were so desperate , you could name your own deal!
I owned my own home and I had a good job. Things were sweet.

[rsomer]

The USDA officials have admitted that compliance with the 1997 order to ban ruminant protein was low as 75%. Information that has come forward at the USDA briefings tell us that there are 1826 firm in the United States that handle the prohibited ruminant protein that was banned in 1997. As many as 425 of these firms were known to be in noncompliance with the ban at any one time. Two firms were known to still not be complying with the feed ban on the day the Washington Holstein was slaughtered on December 9, 2003.
As for the origin of the Washington Holstein, according to the USDA briefings three Holstein downer cows were tested for BSE at Verns Moses Lake Meats in Moses Lake, Washington on December 9, 2003. Two came back negative and one of course was positive. The ear tag could have come from any one of these three cows.

[Muttley]

In 1981 I bought a 78 Chev 1/2 ton for 4500.00 cash from the local dealer. You can still find them for close to that today. In the 70's we were buying new trucks for 500 to 1000.00 difference. My payments per month are that now!!!

[kato]

I also remember the 70's fondly, except I was young and healthy and had no money at all.

We started farming in a world of 20% interest rates. It was a good time if you had money, but boy, if you were borrowing, it was another story! We were borrowing.

The most important thing we learned over the years is to just remember...the banker is NOT your friend...he is working for the bank, not your best interests. If you keep that in the front of your mind, you'll be OK.

[ivbinconned]

Yes what a stunning revelation it was to learn that while my bank was charging me 22% on all my farm loans they where only charging 3-4% on loans to other countries like Poland so they could buy what I produced.
And I thought they where on my side.

[cowman]

I find it quite shocking that only 75% of the firms were in compliance on this thing. I wonder if we had a better rate of compliance up here?
It seems odd to me if the law said one thing these feed manufacturers would violate those laws. And where were the inspectors? Did they know this was going on?

[Bruce14]

Cowman if you reread my post "U.S. Feedplants" notice that it is the records they check not the feed. That makes it even worse.

In July in an FDA release X-Cel admitted to not following the banned ruminant guidelines. They are in Tacoma WASHINGTON.

[rsomer]

If they can trace the Washington Holstein to Canada with DNA tests why do they have to destroy the herd of 450 calves that includes the calf from this cow because the calf cannot be identified without a tag? Why not blood test the herd and locate the calf through DNA testing?

[pandiana]

I would think, rsomer, that they are testing the 450 calves to find out if 'the one' is BSE positive. But they still have to kill them to test them at this point. Because of public perception, they then cannot let the meat out for human consumption. But cowmans point "If now they think it might be a genetic transfer maybe we should also look at the bull that sired her?
The "science" says one thing but the actions suggest another? Do you ever wonder if they are winging it on this one? " is a valid one. There has been some suggestion of vertical transfer of BSE in research papers but to this time nothing has been substantiated. This information however is also not often proferred for public consumption.

[grassfarmer]

The whole idea of testing "the calf" again is nonsense - whatever the cause of BSE is there is no way it's going to show up in an animal this young. Zero science - 100% BS

[ALICIA]

It is said that the cows sire is an Amarican Bull. The dam is a Canadian Cow. So I guess the BSE cow is Dowl citisen.

[cowman]

pandianna: Would it make more sense to take a blood sample of each calf and run the DNA test? Find the one calf and slaughter it? I don't know why they would even do that, because the "science" says it can't be passed onto offspring, or does it? Why would they test 450 calves for BSE because one calf had the unfortunate mother? I thought the "science" said it can't pass froom animal to animal, or does it?
It seems to me the science is pretty shaky? They kill and incinerate 450 calves. Why? It is a complete reversal of everything they have said about the "science"! How do we believe anything they tell us when they don't walk the talk? When Venneman or McKlellan or Speller stand up and tell us this meat is perfectly safe? How can we believe that when their very actions tell us it isn't?

[rsomer]

The USDA is not going to test the herd of calves for BSE as they are far too young for any BSE infection to be detected.
My point about DNA testing the calves was that if DNA testing was used to prove the herd of origin was in Canada, then it would follow that a simple DNA evaluation involving a painless blood, saliva or tissue test could identify the offspring of the Washington Holstein out of a relatively small population of 450 calves.
DNA testing is used to confirm parentage so why not do it in this case? Unless there is a problem with the DNA...as in it would not match the DNA of the samples sent to Canada.

[pandiana]

cowman. Testing for BSE requires brain tissue. There is no way of getting brain tissue from live animals (Interesting that we have heard nothing more about the new 'live' blood test). On the other hand, DNA testing just requires a few (20) tail hairs with cell bodies attached, or scraping from the cheek, or a small amount of blood, in order to perform the test.

[pandiana]

cont from last post.
If they tested the 450 calves for DNA, I would assume they were trying to get a match to the cow. As I pointed out in another thread, the sire DNA would not be very helpful and 1/16th of all holsteins could be related. The maternal DNA would be the definitive proof. I would suspect that the cows daughter in Canada would be the proof they were looking for. If they found the calf in Washington, this would be a clincher.