Next on the Agenda???

[bulltipper]

I'm well aware this may be not most producers radar screens right now but
is this the next thing that's going to hit beef producers in the pocket book??http://www.mytelus.com/news/article.do?pageID=canada_home&articleID=1500435

What do you think about the up and coming water wars??

Take Care

[cowman]

Well if you are dumping manure into the river, then yea you have a problem.
Did you see the documentary this last week on the nature of things? Not very pretty what has happened in North Carolina?
Now I live at the start of a watershed and I guess me and mine have been polluting it for the last hundred years or so. And from the amount of buffalo skulls we find I guess they were polluting it for a few more thousand or whatever?
Now as far as I am concerned that water is mine to do with as I please. This is the basics of water rights. But I also have a duty to insure that what goes down the creek is not polluted? I am working right now with the water conservation person to make sure that I don't pollute. Its going to cost me some money, its going to cost the province some money. These are new times and we have to get on the ball.

[rusty1]

Cowman - Ask your tree hugging conservative if he's a gona fence out all the moose, beaver, elk, and deer out of the Clearwater too. Our urbanites and factories pollute more water shed with non degradables than your cows, or all the cows that currently roam the Red Deer ever will. Come to Lethbridge and walk up the path toward the weir, there is a pipe comes out of the hill from the east. If you stand there long enough (and maybe not too long) and you will watch raw sewage dissolve itself right into the Old Man. I was walking there one day this summer, and meet a fish hugger c/w note book studying what the fish in the Old Man are too high in Mercury to eat. And I’ll remind you that Lethbridge is probably closer to the mountains and fresh snow that you are.

[cowman]

Rusty: I'm not arguing that cities aren't the biggest polluters, but you or I can't change that. All we can do is take care of what we have.
The "tree hugger" is a government employee just doing her job.
The times are changing and we have no choice but to change with them. There is a lot of work being done on cleaning up the watershed into the Red Deer River and I presume the Old Man too? The work that has been done on the Little Red and the Medicine river has started to improve water quality. These both feed into the Red Deer River.
We can either accept these things or get dragged kicking and screaming into doing them.

[cakadu]

There are many watershed groups forming because people have realized that there are better ways of doing things. Cowman is right - water problems are generally a downstream problem and we have to remember, that we live downstream from someone else in most cases.

Whether we live right on a river, lake or other water body or are several miles away, we are in a watershed and what we do affects the water.

Water is becoming a scarcer and scarcer commodity and we have to protect what is here. We're just borrowing it and I would like to think that we can leave it in a bit better condition than we found it.

I am all for restoring watersheds that filter sediment and hold it in rather than allowing it to be washed downstream.

We really can't do anything about what someone else does or doesn't do - all we can control is what we do on our own land and what runs through it.

I felt the same way about the Environmental Farm Plan as well - but decided that I wanted to have the ability to control what went on with my farm rather than having someone tell me that is what I am legislated to do.

Sometimes small improvements can help huge benefits for both me and for the environment - a good thing for all

[cowman]

You've got it Linda! I'm still a little shaky about the environmental farm plan but I understand it is standard operating procedure just about everywhere else so I guess the writing is on the wall?

[cakadu]

What are your concerns about the farm plan? I'd like to hear what they are, if you don't mind sharing them - I probably had many the similar to what you have.

The more I have to do with it - and I will be quite open - I just recently became a facilitator with them - the more I can see the sense in having one (and not just because I'm promoting it. I couldn't promote it if I didn't believe in the concept.)

A farm basically takes a look at their whole operation to assess the environmental risk, thereafter monitoring and mitigating risks. A farm plan takes you beyond the legislation and is a tool to be used to help with risk assessment. In these current times, it makes more sense than ever to show that one is as prepared and safe as one can be. There are often everyday things that we have done for years that we don't necessarily realize is creating a risk for us.

It is a living document if you will and is intended to be revisted on your time schedule whether that be every year, 2 years or what have you.

Ontario has had them for 10 years and I know that Saskatchewan, Manitoba and British Columbia are looking at them too.

If one is going to put in place all these protocols for food safety i.e. testing of all animals for BSE, then you might just as well have plans in place on the farm.

Traditionally homesteads were located near water sources and often runoff from wintering sites went into the river with the potential to contaminate both ground and surface water. Relocating a wintering site makes sense because it also removes the risk of you contaminating your own water source. Not a pretty thought.

You're right cowman, they are coming and better we have some say in what we do than no say at all.

[bulltipper]

Riparian zones are what interest me the most, its amazing to watch how fast a small stream can repair itself after cattle are denied full time access.

What you really don't want is legislated stream setbacks. Friend of mine has a small ranch in the Elk Valley, claims he has lost control of 25% of his home place because of BC government legislated setbacks.

[cakadu]

Bulltipper - it is amazing isn't it - to watch the area rejuvenate and in such a short amount of time. I was at a seminar about a year ago and they were showing the same area over about 100 years. They showed the health of the riparian zone - the area between a river, lake or stream and the upland - about 100 years ago - what it looked like after cattle had been accessing the river in a certain area and then the same area after it had been fenced off. The difference was amazing.

There are many environmental functions that a healthy riparian zone performs - it traps sediment and filters and buffers the water, dissipates the stream energy - storing the flood water and energy which maintains the streambanks, recharges aquifers and maintains biodiversity.

The more I learn about all of it, the more I am fascinated by what being in a watershed is all about.

[cowman]

Linda: My problem with the farm plan? Well it's going to cost me some money! Which I really hate parting with!
But I do know I will have to deal with it eventually. I know a couple of guys who have moved out here from Ontario and they say no one will even buy your farm without an environmental plan. So its coming!
I suppose I'm moving in the direction of compliance. If I get rid of the cows I'd probably be right up to snuff. There is an old oil lease that could give me some major problems. Drilled in the fifties and poorly reclaimed. After all most fifty years and lots of manure it still doesn't grow much! My father signed off on it in the early sixties so I'm left holding the bag for a cleanup. And I suspect it could be costly!

[raymondb]

Cowman--what do you mean you will be left with the responsibility of cleaning this lease? Have you checked with the Dept. of Environment and with the EUB. I could be mistaken but my understanding of the regulations is that the oil or gas lease holder is still responsible for any environment detrements even after reclamation and sign offs.

[cakadu]

Cowman - I'd have to agree with raymond on this one. It would certainly be worth the phone call.

As far as the farm plan costing money, there are some improvements you can make that will be very minimal cost-wise but have a great benefit. I would hazard a guess that in many instances people will find that the changes are relatively simple and won't end up costing too much.

I understand what you are saying when it comes to the money part of it. There will be funds available for those that have a reviewed farm plan under the Ag Policy Framework. They are just finishing up the funding protocols on it now and it will be announced in the coming months.

Many of the legislated changes over the past few years have us to a certain level, the farm plan is intened to take us beyond the legislation. I really do see it as another tool to be able to let people know that we are doing what we can to make our food and our farms as safe as possible.

There are both short and long term benefits to the farm plan and maybe in these uncertain times, one can bring a little certainty and feel like they are doing something constructive.

[cowman]

This well was drilled in the late 50s. I don't even remember it being drilled. Apparently there was a major spill of oil and salt water(a gusher). The company went out of business a long time ago. My dad signed a release when they gave him some money. There was a super good artesian well on the lease for water that they capped off when they left. About five years ago another company wanted to drill on the same lease about 10 meters from the old hole. They claimed the oil lay on top of a salt water sea and the trick was precision depth to suck off the oil without getting it mixed with the salt water. I was all for it but unfortunately this company went belly up before they got it drilled. If they had drilled this well I might have gotten the lease reclaimed properly eventually. We're only talking about a one acre area or so.
Basically to be environmentally friendly I would have to relocate my corrals and calving barn. I have these super springs that bubble right out of the ground. Never freeze and run all year. There is a large dam that collects the water from the springs before it flows into a creek(and eventually into the Red Deer river). My cows always drank at the springs but the plan now is to fence them out. My well? at the one house is 11 feet deep and in reality is a spring. Soft and sweet! The well at my corrals is 50 feet deep and goes 50 gallons/min. One other well in another direction is 27 feet and they can't get a reading on it because they can't pump it fast enough to test!
So you see everything I have is built on top of a virtual underground river! The water witch claims it is 100 meters wide and 100 meters deep!
Now moving everything and rebuilding is just not an option. It just doesn't make economic sense for a cow/calf operation. Especially when I am getting to the age where I want to exit the industry.