what breed of Bull ?

[Freesaw]

I have a herd of 3/4 gelbvieh 1/4 char limo cross cows what should I use for bulls?

[grassfarmer]

What do you do with your calves? retain heifer replacements for sale, sell feeder calves, produce fat steers?

[Muttley]

Since you allready have three breeds represented in your herd you need to be carefull. To much is as bad as not enough. A heinz 57 calf doesn't grow either.
If I was you I would stay with a Limo or Char bull. You could switch to another breed but why. You allready have strong Gelbvieh influence, and you need uniformatity in you colors.
What ever you do don't go black, and this is from a Angus breeder. You could try Red Angus for the color, but get a big birth weight calver so as not to waste your big cows. Nothing I hate more than my big old Char x cows calving at 70 pounds.

[cowman]

Go with the trend...go Angus. Muttley why not use a black bull? If his cows are only a small part Char he shouldn't get any grays? And I think we can probably agree Black cattle get a premium in the feeder market?

[kato]

We pick out the top third of the herd, and breed them one way to get replacements, and breed the rest for sale. Our cows are white, so those who earn it get bred Charolais, and the rest of the herd goes Limo. We end up with a very uniform cow herd, and the sale calves are also alike, other than a handfull of white steers.

Maybe a Gelbvieh bull for getting replacement heifers, and a Black Limo for the rest. Depends on how many cows you have.

[pandiana]

I think I would agree with Muttley on this one regarding color. If you retain females, build you cow herd with two maternal strains. You could use Red Angus to bring your herd up to to 3/4 to 1/2 Angus x Gelbvieh then rotate back to 3/4 Gelbvieh. Once you have 1/2 Angus x Gelbvieh you could use a Balancer (registered Angus Gelbvieh )to maintain maximum hybrid vigor with rotational crossbreeding. Terminal cross Limo or Char could be used on mature cows to maximize production on these maternal cows.

[cowman]

Pandianna: well you Gelvieh bias might be showing here? Not knocking them. From my own personal limited experience they make super cows but they just don't pack on the weight...more of a maternal breed? I'm sure you can refute that so I'll go on and ask you why the color barrier? Why Red Angus over Black? All the Angus boys(or I should say the Black breeders) claim no way can the reds compete with the blacks.

[grassfarmer]

I'm still thinking it is hard to advise given we don't know the producers aim for his cow herd - is he/she producing these high percentage exotics for a specific market in Ontario ? If he isn't I would keep it simple and add some "British" blood - with red angus being the obvious choice if they are red or tan cows. That would surely make cattle better suited to marbling under the feedlot system.It would also make easy keep replacements.

Muttley I'm baffled by your statement:
"You could try Red Angus for the color, but get a big birth weight calver so as not to waste your big cows. Nothing I hate more than my big old Char x cows calving at 70 pounds."
Why would anyone want a "big birth weight calver?" a high growth rate bull perhaps ?

[kato]

One spring at the vet clinic where I work, a fellow asked us while we were doing his 4th or 5th c-section if his bull could be his problem.

"He's a red angus," the guy said "Aren't they supposed to be easy calvers?" When we asked him if he knew the birthweight of his bull, he said it was 135 pounds. We suggested that may be his problem.

Fast growth rate starts before birth. It's a real balancing act to have both calving ease and high performance. Whatever the breed, you've got to know your cows, and what they can handle, and then breed to make the best use of their talents.

[pandiana]

I hate to think that my comment had a bias, cowman. He starts with 3/4 Gelbvieh. By adding another red maternal breed and British he will make the optimum for the market, British Continental hybrid. Terminal cross for more pounds or frame. Adding back Gelbvieh would keep the hybrid vigor with two breeds. The color is to keep the herd uniform as he already is red. Gelbvieh like Simmental and Charolais have the occassional dilute gene that will make grey calves. Go for black if this is not a problem for you.

[Muttley]

I guess I should have thought a little more on my birth weight statement. I do however like my big cows popping out big calves. I use bulls with calving ease. My best heifer bull has a birth weight of 96 pounds but has good calving ease on heifers. I like my heifers to calve at 75 to 85, with no assistance.
In terms of color, black may be hot but I get docked every fall on the smokies. You need to be carefull about those diluter cows.

[Freesaw]

Thanks I think I will breed back to charolais.