Vegetarians

[cowman]

This is a message a lot of you won't want to hear!
My oldest daughter is a vegetarian. I don't know why. When she was about 12 she just decided she didn't like meat.
Her husband is a vegetarian and their two kids have never eaten meat or eggs. This can prove difficult at things like family barbeques, Easter, Christmas etc. as the grocery stores have a very poor selection of "meat substitutes". However there is a vegetarian food store on a local Seventh Day Adventist college that has some excellent products! Their veggie burgers are very good and sure taste better than Wendys or MacDonalds! They have a poultry roast substitute that in my opinion is better than Safeway chicken or turkey. I've never been a big fan of turkey but I like this poultry roast!
If they ever get this stuff into the mainstream the meat business could take a real beating! The prices are slightly higher than meat at this time, but then they are just a small speciality shop.
Vegetarianism is growing fast. We'd better get our act cleaned up and fairly fast before more people decide meat is unhealthy and unsafe.

[rsomer]

There are health reasons to eat meat. It can be difficult for vegetarians to get proper nutrition and many people are just not going to be willing to invest the time and effort required to avoid eating a very nutrious product like beef and other meats.
Yes, for whatever reason some people choose not to eat meat. But for much of the world eating meat such as beef and pork is a luxury food item that they are just beginning to afford.

[enough]

You will find that many of the dishes offered to vegetarians do have the required nutritional value. I believe it is more of a lifestyle than anything else. I myself am not a vegetarian but do find that because of the crisis in beef that I tend to eat more non-meat dishes.

[bulltipper]

So Enough, what do you make of the 2 Brit Vegans that died of vCJD??????


BTW, watched a Statistician from Cornell on CNN, she figured the odds of getting vCJD from eating muscle cuts from a BSE infected animal were about the same as winning the Power Ball Lottery and getting hit by lightning on the same day.

[rsomer]

Meat offers what is known as 'complete protein' because it contains all the amino acids necessary to make up protein. Individual plant foods only have some of the amino acids. The one exception is soy, which contains all the amino acids. However soy is an intensively grown crop that requires large amounts of chemical inputs to grow as well the growing of soybeans is suited to only the highest quality soils in the best agricultural areas. Most arable land is of poorer quality and is suited only to the production of forages which must be converted to protein by animals.

Without careful attention to diet, a vegetarian may develop protein, mineral or vitamin deficiencies. The stricter the diet, the greater the risk of deficiencies. Meat is packed with essential minerals that a vegetarian may lack if not careful. Some of these minerals, and suggested alternative sources, include:
· Iron - women need high quantities of iron in their daily diet to prevent anaemia
· Zinc - performs essential functions in the body, including the development of immune system cells.
· Calcium - is needed for strong bones and teeth.
· Iodine - our bodies need iodine for normal functioning of the thyroid gland and associated hormones.
· Vitamin B12 is manufactured by microorganisms that are ingested by animals. Strict vegans are at risk of developing vitamin B12 deficiency because it is not found in plant products at all.

Problems with a vegetarian diet include difficulties conceiving and a history of miscarriage. White spots on the nails, frequent colds, sugar cravings and poor appetite can be caused by zinc deficiency. Vegetarians are very vulnerable to zinc deficiency because the richest sources tend to be meat or seafood.

Meat is an excellent source of essential fatty acids. Severe menstrual cramps in women are associated with a lack of essential fatty acids (EFAs). Vegetarians have to pay particular attention to their intake of essential fatty acids needed for a whole range of functions in the body such as creating healthy skin, supporting breast health, immune and lung function. Children especially need plenty of EFAs for the development of their nervous systems and cognitive function– learning difficulties have been linked with low EFA intake. Special care needs to be taken with children on a vegetarian or vegan diet. Strict vegetarian diets are generally not recommended for young children. The bodies of growing infants and toddlers have enormous demands for protein, vitamins and minerals. Small deficiencies can have dramatic effects on development.

[kato]

Totally agree with that good information.

It is possible to eat a vegetarian diet, and be healthy, but it practically takes a trained nutritionist to do it. That, and a life long commitement to regulating the diet. How many people have that? Not many, I would think.

Unfortunately, just not eating meat isn't going to mean better health. And there are a lot of people out there who think they are becoming more healthy by just stopping meat. It worries me to see teenage girls not eating any meat, or drinking milk. In the future, when they have to deal with the osteoporosis, it's going to be too late.

Besides all that, I heard on a science program on TV once that if the population of the world all became vegetarians, there wouldn't be enough arable land to feed them. The oceans won't feed them either, because we are very quickly running out of fish.

[cakadu]

I wonder if there are studies being done on the long term effects of being vegetarians, particularly children that are raised from day one as vegetarians or vegans.

One would think (hope) that when undertaking a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle that those doing it would know how to ensure that they get all they need in their diets.

It would seem as though we are forcing our bodies to do something that they weren't intended to do - i.e. be vegetarians. We evolved eating meat and it would seem to me that is what we are supposed to do.

What drives us to make changes when we seemingly don't need to? We took cows, who were intended to do nothing but eat grass - herbivores - and made them eat copious amounts of grain in the present day.

Now with all of the diet fads out there - not cooking anything beyond 110 degrees (I forget what that one is called) so essentially everything is raw, or the latest craze - low carbs - it seems that we are wiling to undergo experiments with our bodies that no one seems to know the long term effects of.

I will never go low carb - never met a potato I didn't like. :-)

[cowman]

Well I'm no expert on vegetarians but I believe they could refute most of what is said here. A lot of the problems associated with "vegetarianism" is in reality the "vegan" lifestyle. If you are eating cheese, milk and yogurt a lot of the problems are eliminated? The girls who work in the small vegetarian shop are very helpful at suggesting products and solutions for various diets. In fact it is a very pleasant place to shop as you get a lot of service and advice...something sorely lacking in the main stream food business?
I do believe most people eat too much meat...me included! I do like my steak and roast beef and occasionally a good pork chop(which is getting hard to find and most of them stink of the hog barn). Vegetarianism wouldn't work for me but I would never condemn those who choose that lifestyle.

[cakadu]

Cowman, speaking for myself - it's not a condemnation at all. It's a concern that I have regarding the long-term effects. Most of the vegetarians out there did get their start the way us meat-eaters did - eating meat, dairy, eggs etc. so we did have a reasonably balanced diet. Mom made sure that we had proper food to eat - even broccoli. Many of the kids today are choosing to go vegetarian, but they had a good start beforehand.

I agree with you that we probably eat too much meat, but like you I'm not going to give it up either. Too much of anything is not a good thing, so moderation is key.

Even carbs aren't bad for you - if you don't overdo it. A potato on it's own is not a bad thing - loading it up with the sour cream, bacon bits, butter and chives is not so good.

To me it would be interesting to monitor these children who have been raised from day one as vegetarians and see how they fare in their older years.

It may very well be that these vegetarians end up a lot healthier in their declining years than we are. Maybe they will be living for 150 years or more - who's to say. I'd just like to be able to see a long-term study. Cowman, it would be interesting to see how kids like your grandkids are doing health wise at say 21 - a comparison to kids not on that type of diet. We might very well be shocked and/or surprised by the results.

There is no doubt that this era of fast-food has created a North American nation of weight problems that we have never seen the likes of before. It isn't all diet - some of it is not getting out and being active, whatever that activity may be.

If that is what they want to eat, then I say good for them. I will never be able to give up a good pork chop or that prime rib because I like them too much. I do however, make sure that I get them from people who raise their livestock the way I want to see it raised.

[cowman]

Due to my medical condition I had to give up a lot of foods. Anything greasy or fat. Oh I still occasionally indulge myself but I pay dearly for it. So no bacon, no KFC, no fatty hamburger, no butter or margerine, no creamy sauces! I also can't smoke or drink alcohol. I have to limit coffee(supposed to eliminate it, but I haven't quite got there!). Some of us become puritans by virtue and some of us old sinners are forced into it!

[cakadu]

I find that some of those vegetarian dishes really aren't all that bad. I draw the line at tofu and brussel sprouts, but some of the lasagnes and such are quite decent.

It wouldn't hurt any of us to give up the KFC type dinners - I don't indulge in those too often at all.

I'm not so sure that one has to go from one extreme to the other, sometimes all it takes is a matter of judgement. Cutting back is not a bad thing either. I've tried some of those fat free dressings and such and find that I really don't like them - it is a fact that it is the fat that makes them taste good. Order it on the side instead of slathered all over those types of things do not hurt.