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    Corporations

    Farmers seem to dislike things they don’t understand and accuse corporations for ripping them off. Lets take a positive look at how large corporations operate, why they are successful and also do more good than most farmers realize.

    Large corporations have operational meetings and the reason is to get all the key personal and subcontractors involved so they understand the business. The bean counters and the CEO keep good control on cost and profit--- its good business to know not just think that your business is making or loosing money—on a daily—weekly or monthly bases.

    Lets not just point fingers at each other but have meetings and try to understand all aspects of the food chain so we all stay in business. Most farmers don’t really have a clue what the cost and net profit is along the food chain past the farm gate--- and at the same token maybe Safeway should know the actual cost and profit to produce the raw product.

    Farm organizations like CCA and ABP should amalgamated into one and stop wasting producer money--- they should organize meetings and seminars to get all people in the food chain to participate because working together is beneficial to all.
    Just sending out post cards and wearing jackets with big letters on the back –I LOVE BEEF is not solving producer problems.

    I think we need real experienced business people to run these organizations and get small producers organized to work together for a common cause --- sort of like becoming one big farm but still have independence--- small farmers should feed to finish the animals and have a gathering system to deliver to the processing plants. ( added value )

    Waiting for the Government to solve the problems is not working and that is all these organizations are doing at present. Lets get the deadwood out of these organizations and start running the farming industry like a business not a welfare case.

    Large corporations have a little more clout in exporting our processed goods than individuals or small companies. Large companies can pay better wages and benefits and can withstand more labour disruptions – you can buy equipment but not labour.

    The large processing companies need a continuous supply of raw product at a competitive price and the only way that is possible is by signing committing contracts by the supplier and processor. The price has to be realistic and competitive for both parties to stay in business.

    The problem I see with farmers is they are reluctant to sign a contract because they think someone is always trying to rip them off or maybe the price will go up, but who cares as long as you made a reasonable profit--- don’t sign contracts if they are not reasonable but at the same token don’t let greed over ride good commonsense—farming is a business so it up you to keep up with globalization.

    The reason we don’t see the prices drop at the same rate at Safeway for beef as at the farm gate because they have long term supply and price commitments ( contracts ) from their suppliers--- its is also good for the supplier because Safeway has a commitment to buy their product --- end result they both make a profit and don’t have a dog fight over daily pricing.
    Some large processing companies would not produce their own raw product if they could get farmers to commitment to supply the product for a long term.
    The farmers are not organized and trying to out smart each other and the companies are taking advantage of this--- don’t blame the corporations for your own mismanagement.

    Lets work with the processors and you will realize they will help you stay in business because they also need your product--- commitment contracts are a must with provisions to amend if the cost of production changes.

    I think the cattle and grain farmers are always trying to rip each other off, if the grain prices are high it seems the cattle prices are low—its supply and demand rule, but me tink a little cooperation could rectify that problem.

    There is no excuse not to know if there are any government subsidies programs and their applications.

    There is a big difference in making a profit or making a living from farming.
    Our demands and expenses are higher now than before so the farming practices have to change to accommodate our lifestyle --- the ratio-- farm size to lifestyle is very important -- so would also stand true—land base – equipment – debt load and working capital. You can’t use a $125,000.00 tractor to spread feed for 35 cows --- something wrong with that picture.

    Cowman-- you probably thought I died because I wasn’t stirring the pot.

    #2
    Sorry but I didn't realise how much good corporations did us. I personally feel these modern day parasites on society are responsible for much of the hunger around the world and destruction of agricultural industries around the world. Unless we can break the stranglehold they have on our lives we will all be forced to live in a feudal system harking back centuries. How appropriate that the corporate greed that drives this system of trading came from post WW2 USA - the land of the free!

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      #3
      Much of what has been said in the above posts may be true, and the disgruntled answer was also true. The point is their is a need for the producers to pull together here. Now is the time!

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        #4
        Strawboss: Actually I thought you might be out on the links but I'm glad your back to keep things hopping!
        While I can agree with much that you say, I have a very uneasy feeling about corporations...especially of the multiNational variety?
        Consider the meat industry as an example. It has consolidated to the point there is very little competition. Good for the corporation, not so good for farmers, labor, or the consumer? Especially when we see the sleazy practices they employ. Predatory business practices, blackballing producers, insider trading, union busting, influence peddling, pollution violations! Why these gentlemen would be right at home in the Mafia or Hells Angels?
        The ultimate blame must go to our government for not putting rules and regulations in place that limit the power of these corporations. Believe it or not the US has better protections built into their system.
        Profit is not a dirty word. But we need restrictions on that profit that comply with our interests. Out and out Capitalism is not a good thing for the people of Canada. Globalism is the Capitalists dream because it reduces people to slavery for the benifit of the Capitalist.

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          #5
          Cowman; Capitalism is good! Monoplies are bad!! One should not confuse the two. You are right the US has had anticombines legislation that has been very good for the country as a whole,Dianne Francis has often pointed this out.
          Capitalism (corporations)that influences government and is able to use government to regulate there competition is no longer capitalism. And only gives the left somthing to rail against.
          The sad fact is I don't know any poor people that hire anybody.

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            #6
            StrawBoss, As a further example of corporate greed we need only to look at the current BSE crisis. I spoke to a feedlot owner recently to try and understand why the feeder cattle have fallen in value the way they have since Christmas. He was quite clear .... with no sign of the US border opening to live cattle and a growing number of fats to market the fat price will probably drop to 40c/lb in June. While packers are making money with 84c cattle just now they will steal in excess of another 40c/lb off feedlot owners by their greed leaving the Goverenment on the hook for compensation payments again to keep producers in business. These crooks should be run out of business - and you can be sure Cargill and Tyson are actively urging the US Government to keep the border closed.

            Comment


              #7
              Its absurd to say that Cargill and Tyson want to keep the border closed—their business is to process and export goods. Poor producer cooperation promotes multi- national corporations to take advantage of this industry--- and sitting back and waiting for the Government to solve problems is another signal that we are easy pray.

              It makes my blood boil to see tunnel vision concepts that incompetence is good and success as evil. If you don’t like mega plants then organize producers and make thing happen—here are suggestions to help rectify the problems.

              1. Add value to your operation by feeding cattle so they are ready for the slaughterhouse—don’t let big feedlots rip you off by collecting Government subsidies.
              2. Also by feeding in smaller lots the livestock is in better health--- less antibiotic used—better for our environment less concentrated pollution.
              3. The estimated waste from the feedlots and plants south of highway one in Alberta is equivalent to a population of 80,000,000 people and the small producer is partly to blame--- we don’t want to finish feeding our own cattle.
              4. We accuse mega-plants for violating the rules---how about the producer delivering sick animals to the slaughterhouse --- something wrong with that picture too.
              5. If you don’t believe in mega-plants then start cooperating with people like ValueChain he’s been working his hearth out trying to start up value added small producers owned slaughter and processing plants. He sure needs producer cooperation and long term commitments.
              6. Every time we have a problem it seems to revert back to poor producer cooperation and participation—again putting another log on to keep the fire going for the mega corporations.
              7. One can easily be on both sides of the fence because mega corporations employ many people who are also consumers.

              Maybe my comments are inappropriate at this time with the BSE crises but the way I see it, ones needs a balanced diet to stay healthy.

              Comment


                #8
                Perhaps we need to show the same Canadian first patriotism that our consumers showed us this last summer. If there is a choice between and American and a Canadian plant, go with the Canadian.

                Now all we need is some Canadian plants!

                Comment


                  #9
                  One thing we must learn from this whole packer issue is that if we ever get these co-op plants up and running, we MUST support them through rain and shine. Even if Cargill and Lakeside offered a 10 cent premium to cut the throats of a Canadian plant, we would have to ignore them. Once we get Canadian-owned plants back in Canada, we can never let them get in trouble. It's sad that Burns and CP never made it .

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Strawboss - suggested reading "The farm crisis, bigger farms and the myths of competition and efficiency" - an excellent document published by the National Farmers Union (Canada) Nov 20th 2003

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Strawboss: I have a few disagreements?
                      First of all: Cargill and IBPs main intent is to maximize profits. This whole situation has been a boon for them. Their Canadian divisions have never done better than these last eight months or so. Why would they want the border open? So their sister plants and the competition in the States could bid the price up? No they are quite happy right now taking a $500 profit on every steer they slaughter. Basic business reality.
                      Perhaps your solutions have some merit but I do see some problems. You say we should feed our cattle out to slaughter weight and therefore profit from the extra income. What extra income is that? The feedlots are going broke too! Why do you think we have the system today that we have? Once upon a time we all did feed our animals to slaughter weight. The present system is in fact more efficient. I will agree this has created animal health concerns and environmental concerns but I never saw anyone standing up and saying they were willing to pay more to not have this happen? And that includes the government, the consumer and the environmentalist?
                      I am sure you also realize that the farmer population is now fairly old? I believe in that 58 range? Are all us old farmers going to go out and invest the money needed to feed our cattle out to slaughter weight? And either do the extra work or hire help? So we can lose some more money? Not going to happen.
                      I do believe Valuechain has the right idea and I believe some people are slowly coming around to his way of thinking. Now whether they have the money or the energy to pursue this is another question. Perhaps the young ones who have another thirty years to invest, in this, will?
                      But your ideas are good ones as they should motivate people to ask themselves where do I want to go with this whole thing. Chuck it or make a long term committment.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Balance in the system is what we are looking for, the small plants will never go head to head with the big guys. If the small plants have a minimum number to stay open when the big guys are paying good dollars that is part of the function of the small plant. Get the prices up and stabalize a foundation income for the producers. As long as you balance the support, you can take advantage of when the higher prices are paid as well!
                        I suspect however, the smaller plants, with a trained staff will be able to accomplish many things the big guys just can't (or won't) do!
                        The big corporations have their meetings with all the plant managers together, so in Cargills case about 20 upper management from Mostly the US and Canada. They use the corporate formulas (as they should) to leverage, money, live animals, frozen product and fresh! If they exchange rate works they use that, if the price works they use that! If they can get their raw product at give away prices "Guess What" they use that!
                        The Canadian farmer is a corporation, they just have to start acting like one and pull together, learn the rules and build the strategy!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          My dad once said "he who has all the answers, dosn't know all the questions."
                          Grassfarmers qoute "These crooks should be run out of business - and you can be sure Cargill and Tyson are actively urging the US Government to keep the border closed." These multi-national (can't believe we put national in that phrase) corporations regulary rotate top ranking exec's through the USDA.
                          Those corporations get there through "situational ethics" called greasing palms. It's time producers woke up. Do the math all the packers need to controll the whole marked is about 15 to 20% of the cattle on feed at the right time to control things. Then the converse is also true, if producers united with around 20% of the cattle on feed, guess what..........

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                            #14
                            I forgot to add. The packers sales are made months in advance, so they no exactly how big of a pipe they have to fill and when.

                            I'm tired of being a mushroom.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              IBP and Cargill are pretty tough companies who use their power and influence to profit excessively from the marketplace. I don't want to imply that they are evil just because they are American companies. Canada Packers used a lot of the same tactics. Owning cattle, contracting cattle etc. to lower the market price. Lakeside packers was even sleazier, so much so, that when IBP bought them they retained just about all the management team! The people who ran CP in Red Deer went enmasse to the new Cargill plant.
                              Meat Packing is a dirty business. So many times their practices border on illegal. Check out how many times Cargill and IBP have been charged with crimes in the US! It is like they are in court just about everyday of the year! Do some research on Tyson(IBP owner)...not a very nice guy?

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