record calf crop

[raymondb]

I was also wandering if you would classify the person who purchased his land for a very low price years ago and purchased his first herd of cows for a real low price as a hobby farmer. His capital investment is low by todays standards and his net worth on the farmland alone is probably in the millions and he is not farming for income as he could of sold and invested for alot better return than he is making now. He is getting all the tax breaks and did not really work to make his net worth high-Land price increase made him wealthy. He must be a hobby farmer.And there are more people like this than you realize today who are looking for more government handouts.

[cowman]

Well I am definitely a hobby farmer then because the only land I ever bought was a sweetheart deal and I'm all for more government tit!
But somehow I'm not benifitting from it too much...hmmm somehow I must be a dumbie or something! Now on paper I guess I am fairly wealthy but I'm not living a lavish lifestyle and I never will! These damned Scotch genetics!!!

[bombay_43]

Let's not confuse "net worth" with real income! You can't eat your assets!
In our area, land prices fluctuate according to oil and gas jobs. You could be worth way less next year, than you are this year. Those who manage to get off the farm with any type of "nest egg" saved up, will get nailed with capital gains in the end. Don't forget the amount that the farmer is allowed exempt in capital gains, has decreased significantly in the past 10 years!
Many don't have any RRSPs, because the farm, was your retirement fund!
I agree we need to get rid of our farmers who have never seen which end of a cow to feed! They farm on paper, buy and sell, but certainly not to the farmers benefit. I don't know where to draw the line, but perhaps we could set a limit of 50% gross income derived from agriculture? Would that satisfy both the full time farmer, and the ones who want to farm but can't without off farm jobs?
Most of the "hobby farmers" that I know, are farming for the tax benefits, etc. not for the love of this type of life! For those who actually aspire to live off the farm, but can't without off farm income, we need to make concessions. What percent do you all feel would be fair?

[cowman]

Bombay: I can generally go with your formula except there has got to be some kind of exemption for the young guy starting out. Lord knows we need some more young guys! For a lot of these young fellows it might take a few years before they show any kind of profit? Now I don't know about you but I'm getting a little leery when I go to whatever ag thing and I'm close to the youngest guy there!
We need some major incentives to renew the farmer in this country???

[raymondb]

I wander if the "farmers who don,t know one end of the cow to the other" are the ones who helped inflate the value of cattle as they were purchasing them. What would the value have been without these guys bidding at the auction marts?

I kinda get lost with the capital gains arguement. In my mind one half million dollars capital gains free is still good and the new capital gains rules mean that you pay less taxes as you claim only 50% now. If you end up paying taxes on capital gains , you have done real well.

[bombay_43]

Raymondb; I stand corrected, and I thank you for clearing the capital gains exemption up for me. I have a neighbor who sold out his farm land last year, and he informed me the amount you were exempt had gone down! I phoned Revenue Canada, and got the low down on Capital gains. It use to be that ¾ of your gain was taxable up until 2001, when it was changed to ½ of the gain being taxable. You are right in saying the 50% rule makes it even better!