CFIA

[magpie]

They state today it will likely be years not months before border opens.Apparently written report before second cow found. Japan newspapers: 90% of their consumers want beef tested, todays paper. Neil janke states no testing. US says testing not feasible. You and I and consumers of canada know our beef is safe,that takes care of 40% of our supplies .We have 60% left To work on and thanks to consumers. I have a small niche market of approx 120 customers.I'm not selling anything special. You can find this product everywhere.I gave consumers what they asked for and was able to increase business along with price throught years.I'm also not organic I see a niche market forming in the world arena.Consumers turn on tv and what do they see,sars,avion flu,bse,foot and mouth,mercury poisoning on and on.World consumers confidence must be shaken somewhat.Why don't we take a page from the united kingdom or european union and try to learn from it.The science I beleave will win in the end,its the perception of the fact that will be a fight if there will be a industry here Why can't we take what i'm doing to the world stage.WE don't have much choice. Here's the headline we have to get too:CANADIAN OFFICALS WITH INDUSTRY LEADERS AND PRODUCERS HAVE SET A FLAGSHIP MODEL FOR WORLD EXPORTERS record exports cont: why would yanke come out and say no testing and box himself in a corner without that option.If we continue to wait for border to open we are history.nine months lost.IF we can get the powers of industry and politicans to stop politics we might have a chance.WE have the id program to start.if county of labelling becomes law imagine this: PRODUCT OF CANADA:LEAN&BSE FREE place this along another country's product,even for a few dollars more which one would you buy? Maple leaf in brandon is working with a outfit in chicago with DNA.will be able to tell which farm the pork came from, "gate to plate".Cost .80 cents per hog,not bad price to pay for building consumers confidence. Does anybody think this can happen if not what do we have to do? Can we make this a north american concept or not? If not is it possible to do it alone?

[ValueChainFX]

magpie I believe you have come to a good conclusion. We have been working with people from around the world and agree with you totally! The people we have been working with may be just the relationships we need to open some of those markets. I do believe it is early to be jumping up and down but the foundation work is now being done. Hope to have good news soon!

[cowman]

Actually magpie you and I and the consumers of Canada have no idea at all if our beef is safe! How would we know? Do you really believe those two cows are the only ones with BSE? And that none have made it into the food chain?
Now our "experts" tell us have no fear because we take out the SRMs. Which is totally false! The stun gun blows the brains into the animals tissues and the splitting saw spreads it all along the whole carcass. The blood isn't safe to feed to animals but is perfectly safe to feed to humans? The "science" on this whole disease is basically junk science and is all about smoke and mirrors, not about food safety?
The only safe way of knowing if the meat is safe is a pre-slaughter test...and that isn't available yet.
My best advice to anyone eating meat is know where your meat comes from. Make it as close to totally organic as possible...perhaps for generations!
Maybe the whole thing is just a tempest in a teapot and someday we'll have it all figured out, but for now no one can say that our beef supply is safe!

[magpie]

Cowman does anybody know the incubation period for human strain of bse and how many have contracted the disease in Canada?

[Bruce14]

There has been ONE case. A poor fellow from Saskatchewan who spent considerable time in the U.K. if I remember correctly.

Quite an epidemic isn't it!

[cowman]

Actually magpie I don't think any expert would even make a guess at the incubation period for a human being...at least not to stake their bottom dollar on it. The fact is no one knows a whole lot about these type of diseases. Whether some can be carriers, whether it can be passed down to offspring, whether it can be passed through other means than ingestion? We just don't know!
No epidemic? I am old enough to remember when they told us AIDS was a gay problem so don't worry? And how the blood supply was safe...oops well now it is safe...oops well now it is safe! Always good to err on the safe side I would think? Oh, and by the way they don't want your blood if you ate meat in the UK back in the 80s? Now that is reassuring?

[magpie]

Value Chain Fx: The good news can’t come fast enough. If you are working on some deal along my thoughts I wish you to succeed. I hope the saying when one door closes another opens is true. This new door may have attachments to it, so be it. We will have to find a way to give what our customers are asking for. COWMAN: I agree that blood should not be used for people. I believe no animal by products should be fed to animals. With all due respect I wouldn’t want a delegation from our customers to come to the conclusion we have been using junk science. The point of the matter is that we have to use at this time, what the science is saying. We had two cows so far and yes there may or not be a few more. It’s not a running wild fire disease. Now I don’t know the incubation period of BSE in the human form or does science even point out there is one. From what I see, very few from North America have contracted it. I’m not saying that even one person is of no concern, my sympathy goes out to those. Those that have this disease and, I may be wrong, have been to United Kingdom. I believe I’m producing the safest product I know how. We will have to work with the test we now have until new one comes along. It might take years or months, but we must move forward on testing. We cannot afford to plant seeds of contradiction of is it or isn’t safe.

[cakadu]

I'm not a scientist and have no idea how long the incubation period is for vCJD and wouldn't want to hazard a guess. It seems to me that if there was any country in the world where we should be seeing an increase in the number of human cases, it would be the U.K. - but we're not. I remember being at a conference a couple of years ago where scientists said we COULD - and I strongly stress could here - see an increase in the number of cases of the human form.

Has it happened yet, not to my knowledge. That isn't to say that it might not yet happen, but so far we've seen no evidence of an increase.

I would also like to point out that we were consuming beef long before the rules changed here in Canada back in August of 1997 and has there been anything found? Again, to my knowledge, the answer is no.

As was pointed out earlier - there was sadly one case - but how and where this person contracted it is anyone's guess.

It seems to me that we cannot go around as if "the sky is falling" because of finding these cases. There could be spontaneous incidences and there has always been the risk of that, regardless of feeding practices. I understand where the thinking is coming from - I'm just not sure if we should be reaching for the panic button just yet in terms of food safety.

We have some of the safest food in the world and I firmly believe that. All one has to do is travel a little and the differences in food safety and hygiene are unbelievable.

Personally, I feel as though we have to have some faith in the food safety system, otherwise we would be dropping like the proverbial fly. I am much more worried about food and water borne illnesses like e-coli and listeria than I will ever be about vCJD. Am I naive - maybe - will I be sorry for this attitude, possibly - but I've been eating the food we produce for a good number of years now and am fitter than I've ever been. Could be the good country living has a lot to do with it, but I also feel we are producing a safe product.

[Bruce14]

Well said Cakadu.

Cowman, if you are bent on fear mongering then where is the epedemic in the U.K.?

Over 200,000 animals tested positive with BSE and there have been around 142 cases of vCJD in humans. Some of those were reported to be vegetarians.

142 cases out of millions and millions of people in a population that is big on processed meats (sausage etc.).

It is over 15 years since BSE was found in the U.K. I wonder how much chemical laden vegetables and fruit and grains we have consumed in the last fifteen years?

[ianben]

Big news here in UK today is we are all TOO fat.
Eating the wrong foods and doing too little exercise.
This is what is leading to permature death and massive cost to healthcare.
Shift work also shortenes life expectancy was yesterdays news
Smoking is making us infertile and babies weak another study has found.
At last so sort of logic seems to be getting through.
The biggest factors in our health must be our lifestyle and the quantity and suitability of the food we eat rather than the way it is produced.
I do think organic is over sold when eating a balanced diet geared to modern livestyle and getting plenty of exercise would make us all much healthier.
Me included!!!!

[ivbinconned]

> For those of you who watch what you eat, here's the final word on nutrition and health. Its a relief to know the truth after all those conflicting medicalstudies.

> 1. Japanese eat very little fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than British or Americans

> 2. Mexicans eat a lot of fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than British or Americans

> 3. Africans drink very little red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks than British or Americans

> 4. Italians drink large amounts of red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks than the British or Americans

> 5. Germans drink a lot of beer and eat lots of sausages and fats and suffer fewer heart attacks than the British or Americans
>
Conclusion: Eat and drink what you like. Speaking English is apparently what kills you.

[grassfarmer]

Cakadu,UK researchers projected in 1996 that 10 million human deaths could result from vCJD, in 1998 this was reduced to 500,000. This dropped again to 7000 in 2002 last year they dropped their estimate again to between 40 and 540 to die within 4 years of that date. Given that the BSE - vCJD link is still conjecture many of us in the UK would have been happy to see certain elements of the scientific establishment sued for ruining an industry but sadly that will never happen.

[cowman]

Bruce: I didn't think I was fearmongering just asking some questions? I certainly don't know everthing about this disease, there are people on these forums who know a lot more than me. But I like to think it is good to ask why certain things are done? I mean if a dumbie like me can see some flaws why won't the consumer? Why won't PETA or Ophra?
I still don't see the "science" behind things like the 450 dead calves, banning blood products for animals while continue to feed them to humans, killing off the offspring/herdmates, So-called removal of SRMs when in fact the SRMs are spread throughout the carcass, banning blood transfusions from UK?
Is it wrong to ask for an explanation of these things? Is it wrong to question the "science"?
If we never asked, why the world would still be considered flat and bubonic plague would still be caused by witches and demons!

[rsomer]

The original post in this topic referred to a CFIA document that the U.S. border would not open for three years. I have copied the CCA response to the news reports of this document below.

Canadian Cattlemen's Association Upset over Canadian Press Story
From the Feb 11, 2004 Issue of Call of the Land Call of the Land Home

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Canadian Cattlemen's Association (CCA) says this week's news report of a "Canadian Food Inspection Agency document" suggests that it may take up to three years to recover export markets is inaccurate, misleading and irresponsible.
The CCA says the document wasn't written by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency but rather by another government department and circulated for policy discussion purposes. It was written last July, which corresponds to the International Panel Report and the Specific Risk Material Policy announced by the Government of Canada last year.

The document considered the way other countries that had BSE in their past were treated by their international trading partners. At that point (mid-July) the document speculated one of the outcomes for Canada could be a two to three year delay in accessing markets.

But now--almost nine months later the situation has changed. International market access for certain beef products has been achieved.

In the CCA's view, this document is a non-story considering today's realities and has created unnecessary anxiety for cattle producers and others in the industry.

[greybeard]

In my opinion BSE is not a big concern to the consumer at this time. As grassfarmer says it was overblown by the doomsayers in U K. The sky didn’t fall. There the consumer stopped eating beef. No demand at any price.
The beef – eating consumers in North America are eating more. It is experiencing one of its most favorable times due to high protein diets and I think better quality product. We line up at the steakhouses. There will always be some shrieking that something isn’t safe. They probably weren’t eating much beef anyway.
Our problem is trade barriers. We can’t ship our live cattle to the plants that were killing them. Here in Canada all processing facilities are running at full capacity .In my local area anyone who can cut meat is moonlighting at one of the recently started abbotoirs.
BSE is the perfect non tariff barrier. Any country that wants to gain political points can close their border and “ study “ the problem for as long as they chose .We did it on feeder cattle .
The U S border must open for any improvement in live cattle prices. They are the only ones who can provide the processing capacity. Our capacity is being fully utilized. We have to double it to match supply with demand. We have the same problem as pork did in 98 when pigs were selling for less than $20 in the states. It didn’t matter what the packers paid they still had more pigs than they could kill lined up the next day.
I hope we end up with at least some plants similar to the one in P E I where the producer can participate in the profits {and the risk}. Beef had been returning a larger share of the end price to the producer. That is not the case now.
Barriers to entry don’t appear to be high in packing .That is probably why we have been getting a reasonable share of the end price. The $60 per head referred to in the P E I plant is less than yardage on the animal at a custom lot.
Unfortunately this doesn’t solve our short term problem .We have to remember this is a short term problem.
In closing I suggest you close your BSE risk discussions with a warning to stay away from cigarettes and use your seat belt. These are real risks that we accept every day. Cancer kills 1300 people a week in Canada. Unfortunately we all knew someone killed in an auto accident. BSE killed 130 in the last decade, mostly in Britain where “brains and eggs “are considered a treat for breakfast.